mulax06 wrote: laxfan25 wrote:
That's great - that is YOUR belief. My belief is that an embryo is not a child - that an appropriate end date for an abortion would be when the fetus is viable outside of the womb - say third trimester. Neither of our beliefs should impinge on the right of a woman to make her own choice.
Why does the ability to see justify something as life? Are you like doubting Thomas? Are you saying that you only believe what you see?
I am not saying you are wrong or that I have to impose my will upon you, but I am concerned that you believe life is only what you can see. If that is the case can I safely assume you are either agnostic or atheist? If so, then in reality it will be difficult for us to come to a consensus considering we are operating under very different basic foundations.
P, ???? What is all this about seeing? Did you misread my statement that abortions should be allowed when the fetus is
viable outside the womb as visible outside the womb?
Agnostic or atheist - is that kind of like ignorant or apathetic? - "I don't know and I don't care!"
As for my personal beliefs - I was raised a Catholic and spent nine years in Catholic schools - and it never took. I had questions even in elementary school - "only Roman Catholics are allowed into heaven" - Why??? I recognized loopholes very early on though. "If you attend nine First Friday Masses in a row you are guaranteed Extreme Unction (Last Rites)" Let's see, if I get Last Rites God will forgive all my sins and I will get to heaven - deal! "God is all-knowing and all-powerful" So God knows what I'm going to do even before I do it - so how can I have free will if he's already written the book?
A thread a while back had a comment by everythingwentnumb that pretty much reflects my principles;
You claim that only by returning to the morals and values held dear by Christianity may we have a return to normalcy, so-to-speak. My question is, do you really need a book and the threat of eternal damnation to make sure you do good in the world? If that threat wasn't there, would you still act respectfully, morally? Or would you hate your neighbor and cheat your friend? I am a loud-and-proud atheist, and I live by a strong moral code. Honor, duty, respect, and love are major parts of my life. I do well onto others because it is the right thing to do. I don't need a book or an all-powerful being or the threat of eternal damnation to continue living morally -- because that's the right thing to do.
I do believe in Higher Consciousness - but don't believe in the need for organized religion. While faith may serve the spiritual needs of many people I think a lot of injustice has been visited on humanity under the guise of religion.
mulax06 wrote:Beta wrote: What really galls me is when right-to-lifers campaign against the "morning-after" pill that simply prevents an egg from implanting in the uterus.
I don't think anyone can argue with preventative measures (religion aside), assuming of course people actually know how stuff works.
One of the issues I have with the church I was baptized in is that they espouse that using anything besides the "rhythm method" (and I don't mean smooth jazz on the stereo) is a sin. Of course this dictate is handed down by the leadership of the church that contains how many female viewpoints? Oh, that's right - zero! Women are unworthy of the priesthood. Score one more for the penile-endowed.
mulax06 wrote: I think that you are touching another argument, but I also think you are misguided. In my opinion you are inferring the members of said Church are not looking out for the best interest of all AND following the mandate put forth to us by God. Last time I checked the Church teaches what it believes to be God's way. Are you going to argue that God is not taking woman's feelings into account when he told us right & wrong?
It could be argued perhaps the Church is wrong, but to say the leadership has no woman has nothing to do with it. I would challenge you to find a verse or teaching of Christ that DOES support abortion.
And I think that you are misguided in thinking that the Roman Catholic Church Corporation speaks for God. I think that there are many fine people in the church, but I also think that the leadership of the church is populated by narrow-minded folks that do not have the best interests of all the members of the church in mind. If they did they would allow woman to be ordained! At the church I occasionally attend the majority of the people that are really active are women, and yet they are relegated to a subservient role. I think that not allowing priests to marry causes self-selection of candidates that in some cases are really warped personalities - it is not a natural lifestyle!
All of this is irrelevant to the discussion of the illegality of abortion. I don't want the Catholic Church (or any church) dictating social policy to everyone else, whether they are a church member or not. It is why I support AUSCS - Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. There was a lot of wisdom in our founding fathers when they built that principle into the Constitution.
) Husky.
