Illinois bans Chief Illiniwek

[Beta]

You have to understand that the Indians of this country basically had their entire way of life taken from them. Living on a reservation within a rapidly modernizing society, Indians see a rapid erosion of their cultural identity. Things like portraying Indians incorrectly, displaying the remains of their ancestors, digging up their history and selling it, etc. are often viewed as an extension of Euro-American imperialism. The idea being that it is ok to do these things because they are just "Indians." It is a theft of their cultural identity and something they want to have a say in. Comparing them to the Yankees or the Brewers is not appropriate since they reflect a commonality of the cultural majority, not a group of people that have been systematically subjugated for the last 500 years.

Every type of people on this earth have been opressed at some point or another. Putting a picture of a native american on a jersey is not forcing people to remember the Trail of Tears....esp when the other team has a jersey with a friggin penguin on it (not to offend penguins and their war with the sea lions). It's not meant in any disrespect in any way whatsoever. I'm sure the NCAA higher-ups are all deeply "in-tune" with Native Americans and any other oppressed people (note: extreme sarcasm).

These aren't blackface minstrels. Most people are PROUD to wear the logos and emblems.

So basically, anything anywhere that has anything resembling anything native american should be taken down...man, that doesn't sound oppressive, at all....

[StrykerFSU]

I have limited internet access so I can't look up a citation but every time that this topic comes up there is a survey that is cited that found that only 9% of Native Americans are offended by the name Redskins or other so-called imagery used as mascots. If some want to feel all the white man's guilt they can handle, go right ahead but let's just remember that we are talking about a freaking sports nickname here. Redskin, when used in the context of the Washington American Football team (1991, best...team...ever) stopped being a racist term a long time ago if it ever was one. The name Redskin in this context is no more about Native Americans than Steelers are about steel workers or Packers are about meat packers.

As for Illinois, I'm sorry that the powers of PC have won in Champagne. It's true that in Tallahassee, FSU has the full support of the Seminole tribe so for the most part the white protesters are kept in check. It's hard to protest when the head of the tribe is being honored at midfield before the game. The William and Mary decision was particularly stupid and my dad, a William and Mary law grad, has stopped donating money to the school because of it.

The moral of this story is that I think the NCAA has much bigger fish to fry than what, in my humble opinoin, is a nonissue.

Maybe Illinois should change their name from the offensive Illinois Illini to an endangered specie...ladies and gentlemen, I give you the University of Illinois Whooping Cranes!

[Beta]

Sorry Styker...but the whooping cranes are offensive to crayfish ever since the now infamous "you ate one of us" incident.

Is there anything that exists that doesn't offend someone? No.

[GrayBear]

I have limited internet access so I can't look up a citation but every time that this topic comes up there is a survey that is cited that found that only 9% of Native Americans are offended by the name Redskins or other so-called imagery used as mascots.

http://www.honorthechief.org/tradition.html

[Sonny]

Saw Chief Illiniwek's last performance last night on ESPN U during halftime fo the Ill/Mich hoops game.

Lots of crying among the fans, cheerleaders, and alums in attendance. I've never made it to Champaign & have no connection to the U of Illinois, but it was pretty sad.

[Beta]

All I know is...Im an educated white male between the ages of 18-35...I am highly qualified to know what is offensive when it comes to the native american race.

[laxative]

Saw Chief Illiniwek's last performance last night on ESPN U during halftime fo the Ill/Mich hoops game.

Lots of crying among the fans, cheerleaders, and alums in attendance. I've never made it to Champaign & have no connection to the U of Illinois, but it was pretty sad.

Chief Illiniwek's final Trail of Tears tour...

[GrayBear]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/21/AR2007022101584.html

[Adam G]

Our country is really good at catering to the minority sometimes, per Novak's comment:

Only a small minority of Native Americans is shown by polls to oppose Indian nicknames in sports. The campaign against them gained momentum only when the NCAA, which can hardly cope with policing athlete misconduct and illegal payments in college sports, crusaded against dozens of colleges in the name of political correctness.

I'm so sick of this PC bull. Nobody wants to hurt anyones feelings. Give me a break.

[Campbell]

Our country is really good at catering to the minority sometimes, per Novak's comment:

Only a small minority of Native Americans is shown by polls to oppose Indian nicknames in sports. The campaign against them gained momentum only when the NCAA, which can hardly cope with policing athlete misconduct and illegal payments in college sports, crusaded against dozens of colleges in the name of political correctness.

I'm so sick of this PC bull. Nobody wants to hurt anyones feelings. Give me a break.

Yeah but both the Sioux (the style the chief portrays) and the Peoria tribe (the descendants of the Illini) have opposed the Chief and asked for his removal. The fact that anyone can assume they know what offends other people is absurd and ignorant.

Where Illiniwek rubs people the wrong way (Indians that is, and a small majority of Indians according to polls) is that he is the epitome of Indian stereotypes, the painted face, headdress wearing, buckskin clad, drum beating Indian. None of those attributes accurately reflect the culture of the Illinois, nor do they reflect even a majority of the Indians in North America. They do reflect a common stereotype that many Americans associate with Indians thanks to years of western movies. I think that is the stereotype that Indians want to change. Their culture has devolved so much among their own people that things like this dilute the true nature of their culture. Its about changing negative and incorrect stereotypes, or at least it should be.

Unfortunately, I think most of the Indian groups pushing this agenda are more in it to have a stake in the use of those icons. Basically, it something they want to have a say in, since they haven't had a say in it for so many years. Its like they have this culture that we didn't care about, so we destroyed it, then we dress up some white kid in a manner that reflects "our" perception of the Indian, and put him on a pedestal...at a football game. I can see why some of them aren't happy about it.

That being said, I really am on the fence over the whole thing. Although I find the Chief to be an incorrect stereotype of the Illini people, I personally don't think that it is negative. In fact, it has a positive impact on the student body, alumni, and fans. The fault I see in all of this is the NCAA inconsistently applying these rules to colleges. Having a person represent the Illini people through a "mascot" or a symbol of the university can be a positive thing for both Indians and non-Indians. I said before that I think FSU is on the right track and should be an example for the NCAA and other schools. I find the decision to ban the W&M logo absurd since it was only two feathers on their logo. It sounds like the NCAA is only listening to a few outspoken Indians and not really examining the heart of the issue, the reasons for offense, and spirit in which these mascots are used.

[Beta]

The fact that anyone can assume they know what offends other people is absurd and ignorant.

Exactly...like the NCAA.

[ZagGrad]

My boss is a U of I alum. I guess what it boiled down to was that the school didn't wan to pay the tribe in order to use Chief. Apparently, this is something FSU does? He's not too bothered by it--U of I will still be referred to as the "Fighting Illini."

[Sonny]

Yes, FSU pays an undisclosed annual amount of $$ to the Seminole Nation.

[GrayBear]

Yeah but both the Sioux (the style the chief portrays) and the Peoria tribe (the descendants of the Illini) have opposed the Chief and asked for his removal.

I think you will find that, as to the Peoria, this is a recent phenomenon, perhaps goaded by activists. The apparel you ridicule was in fact acquired in consultation with, and purchased from a leader of the tribe, Frank Fools Crow. As for the Sioux "style", I know of none, since the Sioux nation comprises numerous bands and sub-parts. Anyway, the Oglala Sioux themselves seem to have a more open mind about these things than the vocal activists trying to manipulate opinion:

http://www.lakotamall.com/oglalasiouxtribe/council.htm

Note the member in Kansas City Chiefs attire.

[Also note in the "History" link the fellow wearing buckskin and feathers]

[GrayBear]

Where Illiniwek rubs people the wrong way (Indians that is, and a small majority of Indians according to polls) is that he is the epitome of Indian stereotypes, the painted face, headdress wearing, buckskin clad, drum beating Indian. None of those attributes accurately reflect the culture of the Illinois, nor do they reflect even a majority of the Indians in North America.

I think FSU is on the right track and should be an example for the NCAA and other schools

http://seminoles.cstv.com/trads/fsu-trads-chant.html