D-1 Poll is a mess

[Zamboni_Driver]

My new rankings...

ZD's Rank....MCLA Rank. Team (MCLA Record) [T25W/T25L/NR L]

1.................1. Michigan (6 - 0) [4/0/0]
2.................3. Chapman (9 - 0) [4/0/0]
3.................9. Sonoma State (7 - 1) [3/1/0]
4.................11. Simon Fraser (8 - 1) [3/1/0]
5.................2. Colorado State (6 - 1) [4/1/0]
6.................7. Minnesota-Duluth (5 - 2) [3/2/0]
7.................4. BYU (5 - 3) [5/3/0]
8.................6. UCSB (9 - 1) [3/1/0]
9.................5. Oregon (9 - 0) [1/0/0]
10................8. Arizona State (7 - 2) [2/2/0]
11................13. Cal Poly (6 - 3) [3/3/0]
12................12. Florida State (9 - 1) [2/1/0]
13................15. Lindenwood (8 - 2) [3/1/1]
14................16. Georgia (6 - 3) [3/3/0]
15................14. Boston College (2 - 3) [1/3/0]
16................10. Colorado (1 - 1) [1/1/0]
18................20. Loyola Marymount (7 - 3) [1/3/0]
19................19. Florida (7 - 3) [1/2/1]
20................NR. Stanford (8-2) [1/2/0]
21................21. Virginia Tech (6 - 1) [1/0/1]
22................18. Texas A&M (9 - 3) [0/3/0]
23................NR. Santa Clara (6-3) [1/2/1]
24................23. Northeastern (0 - 4) [0/3/1]
25................22. Central Florida (6-2) [1/1/1]

Just outside: Claremont

[CATLAX MAN]

Simon Fraser beats the #9 team, moves up to number #4, but behind the team they beat. That doesn't make sense.

Sonoma (#9) beats the #2, loses to #11, and somehow moves up to #3. That doesn't make sense either. That win & loss should bascially offset each other.

It would seem to me that SFU, ought to move up a few spots...over Sonoma. Sonoma should be pretty static and CSU should move down.

[Zamboni_Driver]

Simon Fraser beats the #9 team, moves up to number #4, but behind the team they beat. That doesn't make sense.

Sonoma (#9) beats the #2, loses to #11, and somehow moves up to #3. That doesn't make sense either. That win & loss should bascially offset each other.

It would seem to me that SFU, ought to move up a few spots...over Sonoma. Sonoma should be pretty static and CSU should move down.

Very good questions, and my answers are admittedly not the best.

On Sonoma - I've been withholding points from Sonoma from the start until they proved to me that the loss of their head coach and some players was going to be offset by the new coach and transfers. Over the last few weeks their performance earned them good points and the points I was withholding - thus a jump. Now they are over Simon Fraser in rank but they are dead even on points for 1 reason - from the posts it sounded like Sonoma might be the overall better team, but not just on that day (i.e. if they played again sonoma would win)

Again, I like a fluid poll - so the teams that have the biggest opportunity to make jumps are UCSB and Oregon in my mind, and Sonoma and Simon Fraser would drop if these two teams continue to win.

[CATLAX MAN]

If they were the better team, they would've won, no? You cannot ignore results. I also don't see how those 2 teams vault form 9 & 11 to 3 & 4 based on what happened.

[Dan Wishengrad]

Today's UCSB at FSU game is HUGE for the new poll, and not just for the Seminoles and Gauchos. The relative national ranking of two entire conferences is somewhat on the line here, too -- especially if the result is a lopsided win by either team.

[Woda]

If they were the better team, they would've won, no? You cannot ignore results. I also don't see how those 2 teams vault form 9 & 11 to 3 & 4 based on what happened.

Some teams match up better. Just because one team wins over another team doesnt necessarily mean that you are better overall.

[Woda]

I don't see how the FSU / UCSB game is that big of a deal? If UCSB wins, they were suppose to win, shouldn't move them up. If FSU wins, it shows either that UCSB wasn't as good as everyone thought, or FSU is decient this year, but even so it shouldn't move them higher than 9-10 due to their loss to Georgia and no other big quality wins.

[Zamboni_Driver]

If they were the better team, they would've won, no? You cannot ignore results. I also don't see how those 2 teams vault form 9 & 11 to 3 & 4 based on what happened.

Some teams match up better. Just because one team wins over another team doesnt necessarily mean that you are better overall.

I agree with both these statements. Can't ignore the results - but I won't take results from 1 game and say it is a consistent trend either.

[Zamboni_Driver]

I don't see how the FSU / UCSB game is that big of a deal? If UCSB wins, they were suppose to win, shouldn't move them up. If FSU wins, it shows either that UCSB wasn't as good as everyone thought, or FSU is decient this year, but even so it shouldn't move them higher than 9-10 due to their loss to Georgia and no other big quality wins.

I agree. If the rankings are correct I'd expect the final to be 13-9 USCB. UCSB doesn't tend to blow anyone out. And 9 for FSU against their defense would be a good showing of a 11-12-13 team.

[Dan Wishengrad]

I don't see how the FSU / UCSB game is that big of a deal? If UCSB wins, they were suppose to win, shouldn't move them up. If FSU wins, it shows either that UCSB wasn't as good as everyone thought, or FSU is decient this year, but even so it shouldn't move them higher than 9-10 due to their loss to Georgia and no other big quality wins.

I agree. If the rankings are correct I'd expect the final to be 13-9 USCB. UCSB doesn't tend to blow anyone out. And 9 for FSU against their defense would be a good showing of a 11-12-13 team.

If UCSB wins a 13-9 type game, I agree it will turn out not to be a big deal. But as a pollster, one of the toughest conferences to figure out in '08 is the SELC -- both for relative internal ranking of that conference's teams and also how these same teams compare to the rest of the Top 25. If FSU pulls the upset today, it will provide a huge boost to the rest of the SELC teams, too. If UCSB wins handily on FSU's home field, however, the rest of the SELC teams may find themselves falling significantly in the Top 25 rankings -- or even out -- as a result.

[EvanFSU]

I don't see how the FSU / UCSB game is that big of a deal? If UCSB wins, they were suppose to win, shouldn't move them up. If FSU wins, it shows either that UCSB wasn't as good as everyone thought, or FSU is decient this year, but even so it shouldn't move them higher than 9-10 due to their loss to Georgia and no other big quality wins.

I disagree. This is a huge game for FSU. If they win and then have a good showing this weekend against Virgina Tech and Boston College they deserve to be thrown into the mix of top teams.

[Kyle Berggren]

If they were the better team, they would've won, no? You cannot ignore results. I also don't see how those 2 teams vault form 9 & 11 to 3 & 4 based on what happened.

Some teams match up better. Just because one team wins over another team doesnt necessarily mean that you are better overall.

I agree with both these statements. Can't ignore the results - but I won't take results from 1 game and say it is a consistent trend either.

I was at the game, and granted I was distracted, but I wouldn't guess Sonoma wins that game the majority of the time. I'd bet the opposite. The teams were pretty evenly matched, but SFU was the better team the vast majority of the game. I thought the game was officiated very well, but a few interesting calls at the end put Sonoma in a position to score goal number 9 or the game could have finished 10-8. They hit some pipes, so did SFU, but overall, I saw SFU as the better team. SSU scouted them the night before, knew what they ran on O, D, saw their pressure extend to it's limits, how good their best players were, & were able to form a game plan... SFU did not have that luxury, but came out with the win.

[tmatlacrosse]

I still don't understand how unblemished schedules don't seem to get you anywhere in this league. Yes I realize there was the great Auburn incident of whenever...but this isn't Auburn. You've got a team like Oregon who has played flawless for nine games and is still ranked behind BYU who now has three losses. Granted all three losses are to teams ranked in front of them, but this type of ranking would make sense if people saw both Oregon and BYU on a regular basis. No one has done this, so no one can make legitimate claims to who is better. That being said, why must we speculate. Why don't the pollsters and forum writers use the information they have (wins, losses, and schedule) to make their decisions. Who cares if they are placed a little high for this next poll? If they really aren't deserving of being in front of BYU then a loss or two will prove that.

The pollsters have proven the forum writers wrong in the past, and I hope this can be another such occasion.


And now that FSU has beaten UCSB the mix up will be FSU moving ahead of SB and Cal Poly, who SB beat earlier in the season.

[1one]

well i think Oregon's lose tonight will keep them out of the top 5, or at least it should...

[buffalowill]

Yep, Oregon should definitely not be in the top 5 after managing only 4 goals against CSU.
I think Arizona State, FSU and LMU are very underrated in the poll at this point...in that order.

Add Florida to that list...