Third MDIA Div. A Top 25 Poll is out (3/23/05)!

[LaxGuru]

Why? A simple e-mail and 2 hrs of time could do it. A database to enter the info eliminates calculation time. It's really not as hard as you make it out to be,make it a requirement like dues, roster info..etc.

Just cause I'm being critical does not mean I'm angry, or fired up, I'm actually calm as could be.

Why will people only respond to my questions with insults or a holier than thou attitude? Sonny was the first one to answer one of my questions and I thank him for that.[/quote]

[Sonny]

It is unrealistic to think that every Head MDIA Coach in the country can or would vote in the poll.

Why? A simple e-mail and 2 hrs of time could do it. A database to enter the info eliminates calculation time. It's really not as hard as you make it out to be,make it a requirement like dues, roster info..etc.

Because it's hard enough ensuring 30 voters in the Div A Poll and 16 voters in the Div. B Poll vote every other week. Triple those numbers and you can do the math.

I've been producing the poll for the last 8 years basically. It really is as hard as I make it out to be.

[bste_lax]

1) Not all coaches are the head person to entering data into the sites. I know like half of GRLC for instance has player reps as the people who enter that data.

2) Not all teams have "real" head coaches......I am guessing still 25% of USL MDIA teams have someone else who doesn't play on the sideline "acting" as the coach. Might even change from week to week.

3) Most of the time when teams do have a coach, they are not informed as some people who DO vote in the poll. I.E. I have more faith in a Danny Hogan or a Alex Smith then I do St. Louis University or Oklahoma State's head coach. No rip on those coaches but Danny and Alex are a bit more informed then they are.

[LaxGuru]

Sonny, I'm not doubting that at all. I understand getting the 30 now is difficult, but it could be done. If it couldn't, then the NCAA wouldn't be able to do it. Say for example, you take those 30 guys, instead of pollsters they stay on top of all the coaches to make sure the info gets done. Put out punishments to teams that don't submit the same way as if they don't pay their dues. I'm not trashing the league, I want it to be as popular as the NCAA, not just in the caliber of play but in how it is run. Games on T.V, webcast the whole shebang, my posts have only been looking for reasons people placed teams where they were, some showed some frustration with the replies I've gotten, but I'll openly admit when I stand corrected on something.
I also believe Danny and Alex to be very knowledgeable and I always take their input seriously. I'm only trying to create options here.

[Walter]

I take the pre-season poll, when you lose you fall, who you lose to determines how far. You win in the same stretch, then who did you beat and does that justify not falling as far? Very simple, how most polls are done. What I don't do, and maybe I should do is look to justify teams that are always in the poll reasons to move up or stay the same when logic says they shouldn't.

Maybe Illinois should have dropped to a 2 or 3 seed in the tourney because they lost to an unranked team at the end of the season. Pollsters vote on who they feel are the top 25. If you feel that Pitt is a 15 - 20 team that is your opinion, and you can vote that way in your poll, but when the other pollsters dont see it the way you do it does not mean they are any more biased then you are, in that they see certain teams, and they see scores of other teams.
I have seen personally the top team from the WCLL, RMLC, CCLA and A&M. I know what i saw and the poll is pretty correct. CCLA teams are going to be judged on how Michigan does, and the LSA are going to be judged on A&M and the other top teams, and RMLC is going to be judged by CSU and BYU. From my observations I think the poll is pretty close, (i think LU and Oregon are a little high, but there is no one more worthy to put in those spots.) Take it from someone who has been to St. Louis almost every year and sees alot of games throughout the year, this poll process is the best that it has ever been and will continue to get better as parity evens out the league.

[Walter]

Sonny, I'm not doubting that at all. I understand getting the 30 now is difficult, but it could be done. If it couldn't, then the NCAA wouldn't be able to do it. Say for example, you take those 30 guys, instead of pollsters they stay on top of all the coaches to make sure the info gets done. Put out punishments to teams that don't submit the same way as if they don't pay their dues. I'm not trashing the league, I want it to be as popular as the NCAA, not just in the caliber of play but in how it is run. Games on T.V, webcast the whole shebang, my posts have only been looking for reasons people placed teams where they were, some showed some frustration with the replies I've gotten, but I'll openly admit when I stand corrected on something.
I also believe Danny and Alex to be very knowledgeable and I always take their input seriously. I'm only trying to create options here.

Not all coaches vote in the coaches poll that is put out every week.

[LaxGuru]

Fair enough, I'm not campaigning for Pittsburgh, only using them as an example, just wanted to clear that up. But shouldn't the CCLA be judged by how the defending champ is performing?

[CATLAX MAN]

The league poll is the average of the 30 most qualified & informed individuals that are associated in some way with the MDIA. The fan poll, which is only for entertainment purposes only, is the average of 13 long time posters in this forum, who also happen to be realtively informed about MDIA lacrosse. That's 43 people who had vitually the same opinion. What more information do you need?

[Sonny]

Sonny, I'm not doubting that at all. I understand getting the 30 now is difficult, but it could be done. If it couldn't, then the NCAA wouldn't be able to do it. Say for example, you take those 30 guys, instead of pollsters they stay on top of all the coaches to make sure the info gets done. Put out punishments to teams that don't submit the same way as if they don't pay their dues. I'm not trashing the league, I want it to be as popular as the NCAA, not just in the caliber of play but in how it is run. Games on T.V, webcast the whole shebang, my posts have only been looking for reasons people placed teams where they were, some showed some frustration with the replies I've gotten, but I'll openly admit when I stand corrected on something.

The NCAA doesn't produce any collegiate rankings/polls that I'm aware of. That is a function of a media entity (i.e. Associated Press, ESPN, USA Today), coaches or athletic directors associations, or other external organization. Furthermore, the Top 25 poll is a function of the USLIA.com web site now and cannot levy fines upon MDIA teams or coaches that do not comply with poll balloting.

Believe me - I've been doing the poll for almost 8 years now. I know how important the rankings have become. However, until we can turn on ESPN Sportscenter and see the latest MDIA highlights - the poll is what it is. Although it is easier then in seasons past with our new online system, it is difficult and time consuming to produce the poll & accompanying press release. I have faith that most of the pollsters take the time to produce a quality (well researched) ballot, week in and week out. Your complaining about the poll results won't effect that one iota.

[Walter]

iota.

good word

[Danny Hogan]

i think LU and Oregon are a little high, but there is no one more worthy to put in those spots.)

thats the other half of the catch-22 that is #s8-25

[LaxGuru]

Your right, I came across as complaining when I was just looking for reasons teams were where they were. For that I apologize. I guess i figured there were more people involved inthe leagues operation than there are.Maybe the league need more volunteers to get it growing ( in the exposure sense),if that's the case, I'll offer my free time if need be.

[Sonny]

Maybe the league need more volunteers to get it growing ( in the exposure sense),if that's the case, I'll offer my free time if need be.

Contact your respective MDIA conference. I'm sure most of them would appreciate the help and assistance.

[John Paul]

Sonny's right. The NCAA does not produce polls for most of its sports. It's almost always done by outside entities (Inside Lacrosse, USILA, BCS, AP, Hockey Weekly). I don't know of any polls where all of the coaches vote. Very few are done by coaches at all. The most well-known coaches poll, the ESPN/USA Today D1 football poll, selects 61 D1 coaches to vote. Even for that one, do you think that coaches like Lloyd Carr, Bobby Bowden and Lou Holtz are actually doing the voting? In most cases those guys hand it off to a GA to fill out for them. None of the guys involved - head coaches, assistant coaches, GA's - get a chance to watch other games on Saturday more than once or twice a season. They are going on scores, reputation and advice from others.

Every poll can be argued. I argue that ours is among the fairest, best run out there. Sure, there is some nepotism. Some teams stay ranked for awhile based on reputation or past performance. But take a look at our poll this week versus the same poll three years ago. Aside from the top few teams, there are quite a few completely new names. Some traditional powers have dropped out altogether. Teams with a track record are often given the benefit of the doubt a bit until they drop, just as newly successful teams often have to prove themselves over a few weeks to get recognition. It's the same way for every poll in every sport.

[LaxGuru]

Okay.I stand corrected. Thankyou for the explanation J.P. Most responses of gotten were sarcastic and insultive which only made my argument stronger. But you answered exactly what i was looking for, i may not agree with some but I can understand it.