Ithaca College 18, Chapman 16 FINAL

[byualum]

Great showing by Chapman...If you're still looking for the really bitter, "we're still better" Ithaca fans, they're over on the laxpower board.

[DG]

With Ithaca at 4-0 and a huge upstate rivalry contest a week from this Saturday with #3 Cortland, the Ithaca coach would be taking a huge, unnecessary risk by playing -if only for the 1st quarter- front line guys (particularly mids & attack; perhaps they'll run their top poles for a while(?)) against Chapman no matter how Chapman or the rest of the MCLA looks at it.

Strategically, it makes no sense what-so-ever. If anyone needs to 'get over' themselves, it's the few MCLA/club zealots on this board with their self-induced inferiorty complex. Enough already. Look: 99.9999% of the varsity lax world knows how hard the top club teams work at what they do and have enormous respect not only for their accomplishments, but also for the out-and-out solid quality of ball that they play. Why else would Ithaca want to play Chapman if they didn't?

I saw Chapman play a few years back and they were very impressive: solid players, good game flow, teamwork, etc. If they were a varsity DIII program, I'd rate them somewhere in LaxPower terms somewhere around 75-80. In a real, bonified game with an Ithaca where records count in playoff considerations, etc., they'd be the underdog by a mile, but, like any underdog, could make things miserable and pull off an upset. However, like everything else in this never-ending debate, it's all either hypothetical or speculative extrapolation and opinion.

Well this forum has now gotten out of control for Chapman fans and probably players to pump up their program. If you want to talk about your team thats fine but no one will believe that Ithaca kept their starters in to the end of the game. I'll believe Nelligan scored 3 times in the fourth quarter maybe if Coach Long got competitive and put the starters in at the very end so this forum wouldnt get outta control and have Chapman players saying they are top 5 in d3. But i wont believe he played the whole game.

Its sad that your team is not in D3 cause that would settle all discussion on how good the program is but until then a club team will never be played serious during a teams regular season BECAUSE IT HAS NO RESULT IN THEIR STANDINGS!

These are 2 posts from the now locked Ithaca/Whittier thread on Laxpower. In both cases, they can't (or won't!) believe that Ithaca played the game to win. I guess that if I repeat something enough times, then what I say must be true.

It is sad to see the D3 guys defending their turf so vehemently. I wonder what they are afraid of...seriously.

DG

[Jac Coyne]

Great showing by Chapman...If you're still looking for the really bitter, "we're still better" Ithaca fans, they're over on the laxpower board.

Well, technically, they still are...

While I understand comparative scores don't mean much, here's a couple more to stew on:

Michigan 14, Kenyon 7
Kenyon 14, No. 12 Roanoke 11 ('Noke was as high as No. 4 this year)

[Danny Hogan]

or was by saying Oregon can beat Ithica implying that Oregon is a better team than Chapman?

sarcasm about Brauck looking at the world through green and gold/yellow/whatever colored glasses...

[Zeuslax]

I may start the great debate with this one, but there is a fine line when varsity teams play MCLA teams and lose. This is a large piece of the great fear that varsity coaches have always had with our league. It's not about the L either. It's about the colleges and universities represented in our league seeing a viable, highly competitive and stand alone operation that is operating and competing at a varsity level........without much support from the school and without athletic dept support. The schools see the opportunity to continue with the status quo and the relevance for greater support/inclusion is diminished. I know JP has said that he sees the opposite effect at MI (and has argued as such) and we have at CMU as well, but every institution is different. I think it’s safe to say that for every school supporting the growth with a glass ceiling, there are others not so eager.

[GrizLens]

or was by saying Oregon can beat Ithica implying that Oregon is a better team than Chapman?

sarcasm about Brauck looking at the world through green and gold/yellow/whatever colored glasses...

Extremely funny comment, by the way.

[byualum]

Great showing by Chapman...If you're still looking for the really bitter, "we're still better" Ithaca fans, they're over on the laxpower board.

Well, technically, they still are...

Yes, I understand that IC scored more goals than Chapman.

What I think riles up the MCLA fans is the attitude of DI/DIII fans that if their team played a close game vs. an MCLA team, then obviously, the varsity program was not playing to win. Surely no club team could give their varsity program a good game.

And if you notice, the comments always come from the fan-base, never the coaches or players of the DI/DIII programs.

[Jac Coyne]

What I think riles up the MCLA fans is the attitude of DI/DIII fans that if their team played a close game vs. an MCLA team, then obviously, the varsity program was not playing to win. Surely no club team could give their varsity program a good game.

I confess to once having that same attitude and have since realized it is not true. The marginalizing of MCLA programs is a way for the fan base to rationalize these tight scores. The attitudes of a majority of those fans will only change through continued inter-association play. I think this will happen more and more when NCAA coaches realize they can give their team a severe test in a scrimmage against an MCLA team, preparing them for the season without potentially hurting themselves in the NCAA tourney selection criteria.

A case in point would be Colorado College. I would bet their tight victories over CU and CSU provided a great primer for them as they headed into the Washington & Lee game. Granted, their RPI loss throws a wrench in that theory, but I'm sticking to it.

CC also provides a flipside to the NCAA fan's argument. From what I understand, CSU has owned CC for quite a while, so why wouldn't CSU get some of their other players some time in a 'meaningless' game? I don't think this is true, but it's a counterargument.

And if you notice, the comments always come from the fan-base, never the coaches or players of the DI/DIII programs.

Agreed. I don't want to speak for Coach Wood or Coach Long, but having spoken to both I feel safe in saying they share a mutual admiration for each other having worked together in the past. Thus, I would be very surprised if Coach Long played his secondary players or allowed his kids to mail one in just because it "didn't count."

[UkraineNotWeak]

It was interesting to read one person comment and state the following:

Chapman is a very respectable club team, playing good lacrosse, but don't look for parity with the top of the NCAA DIII ranks. It is not there. A better estimate of their relative strength vis-a-vis the NCAA will be Chapman's mid-April game against Whittier. There should be no need to debate that both teams will consider that a meaningful game. Against a common opponent, BYU, Chapman and the Poets earned similar one goal victories. By the time of the Chapman game, Whittier will have returned from its east coast swing against four quality NCAA opponents. So there will be a more accurate sense of the Poets' place in the DIII rankings. Should make for an interesting contest.

So, if Whittier plays an MCLA team, both teams consider it a "real" game? Does this only apply when Whittier is not ranked? Were the games against MCLA teams considered scrimmages for Whittier in 2003 when they made it to the semifinals? [/quote]

[Ravaging Beast]

or was by saying Oregon can beat Ithica implying that Oregon is a better team than Chapman?

sarcasm about Brauck looking at the world through green and gold/yellow/whatever colored glasses...

Yes...sarcasm. Brauck really told me that UCSB would have beat Ithaca, but not by a lot because they always play close games.

[DG]

or was by saying Oregon can beat Ithica implying that Oregon is a better team than Chapman?

sarcasm about Brauck looking at the world through green and gold/yellow/whatever colored glasses...

Yes...sarcasm. Brauck really told me that UCSB would have beat Ithaca, but not by a lot because they always play close games.

RB, reading the inital post made me laugh out loud.

DG

[Danny Hogan]

or was by saying Oregon can beat Ithica implying that Oregon is a better team than Chapman?

sarcasm about Brauck looking at the world through green and gold/yellow/whatever colored glasses...

Yes...sarcasm. Brauck really told me that UCSB would have beat Ithaca, but not by a lot because they always play close games.

deep and funny...

[Dan Wishengrad]

What really amused me from reading the thread on LaxPower is to have all the east coast DIII guys accuse us of having "an inferiority complex" when it is readily apparent that the exact opposite is much more accurate. They all have a "superiority complex", in fact, when forced to come to grips with poor showings against our MCLA club teams.

[A.J. Stevens]

And if you notice, the comments always come from the fan-base, never the coaches or players of the DI/DIII programs.

Not true. One of the above quoted posts from laxpower was written by a coach who has been coaching at the Div III level since 96'. He regularly posts on here and laxpower under the same name.

[DG]

And if you notice, the comments always come from the fan-base, never the coaches or players of the DI/DIII programs.

Not true. One of the above quoted posts from laxpower was written by a coach who has been coaching at the Div III level since 96'. He regularly posts on here and laxpower under the same name.

I've enjoyed his posts over the past couple of years...and he clearly knows the game. Since tone does not translate well on emails or message boards, I will clearly state my intention here...I'm not trying to start an argument or show anyone up with the following question.

After seeing the result, and knowing that Ithaca's starters played most of the game, does he still believe what he posted on Laxpower?

DG