Lax World MCLA Div 1 Top 25 Poll (3/12/08) is out!

[laxdad03]

It seems that portions of this topic are in danger of becoming rather silly again. As we have already had a couple regular season polls, FORGET about the pre-season poll (but don't do away with it, it's interesting, and it is based on the best info we have AT THE TIME), and remove any notion of significant causality or importance for how far any team drops or rises with respect to earlier polls, pre-season or otherwise. Similarly, I don't think one needs to consider "penalizing" or "rewarding" teams for the makeup of their schedules by modifying how far they might drop or rise from one poll to the next, independent of other more relevant considerations. That sort of thing should come out naturally with proper consideration of games and opponents. And recognize that simple totals of W's and L's (or percentages thereof) alone, especially early in the season, are NOT sufficient to base rankings on.

IMHO, teams should (always) be ranked directly, based on true relative merits, as best as can be determined at any given time. The difficulty of the pollster's job right now ("crazy start to the season") is due largely to the relative lack of common opponents so far in this season. Clearly, criteria should prominently involve head-to-head matchups and results vs common opponents (where available), as well as (properly applied) observed strengths and weaknesses in games that may not be otherwise directly applicable to rankings, but also might reasonably include even (gasp!) results of recent past seasons, considered along with any changes in team makeup and other partially historical or anecdotal program factors, etc., particularly where other RELEVANT countermanding information may not (yet) be available. By the end of the season, where it really matters, there should typically be enough such directly relevant game information available to do a pretty good job (not possible to have perfect coverage among a hundred or so teams, of course, but reasonable, and the best that can be done), and other factors (e.g. pre-season, etc.) should basically go away. I think that by and large the pollsters are sharp/dedicated/honest enough to recognize this and vote accordingly, at the various phases of the season.

[Timbalaned]

Everybody knows that Oregon still has a ton of talent, but I think its fair to say they have yet to be tested this season. A "fair" ranking of UO will also have to wait until we see some results against the MCLA's best teams.

Fully agree, I also think they will be just fine!

[Hi-Line Lax]

the Ducks are still really good.

[bchow]

The Ducks have a great team. The roster is filled with young talent. I can't wait to see how they perform against Colorado and CSU.

[DG]

Oregon is a real interesting case. I think they have a very good team, but I also think that anyone in the top 5 would be undefeated if they played Oregon's schedule. Even Timbalaned would agree with me there. We'll know what they have to offer by season's end, as their schedule will get much harder.DG

Why you got to call me out? As you said, I am not too worried about where they are right now, actually I kind of like it. Just like Northeastern showed the world, you don't want to come out the gate with ridiculously hard games, unless you really know you can win them. High risk, high reward, they failed. (no offense) I personally think a few warm up games, seven maybe a lot, but that is the PNCLL right now, are good for a team to get going before they get into the meat of their schedule. You do want tough games to prove you can hang, but you also want a few games to get the sticks going too before you do anything crazy. Still plenty of time between now and mid May.

I just tried to find the most fanatic Duck that I could think of...and it just so happens that I only know one...so I went with that

That last game of the year in Eugene should be pretty good!

DG

[Timbalaned]

That last game of the year in Eugene should be pretty good!

I plan on being there, you guys coming up? Should be pretty good weather by then in Eugene.

[tmatlacrosse]

Ya, part of it has to do with a few years back when they made it to the final four. Also being such a big name school and getting so much financial support, I would assume pollsters are pulling for them to be good.

I realize I'm a little late on this post, but I need to echo a little of what Stryker said and then add a little. Who exactly are the sources that tell you FSU is full of money? Because of statements like this you totally discredit the large amounts of money the team has to raise and pay out of pocket. The school gives just as much support as any other school in this league.

And why is their ranking based on success from four years ago? Don't you think it might have to do with the teams they have played and beat this season? And since the big name school has so much to do with how pollsters vote I guess that's why Michigan is number one this time around. And to top it all off, the MCLA's success is obviously very dependent on how well FSU does, so it only makes sense to support them in the voting for the polls. Your lack of thought disgusts me!

[DG]

That last game of the year in Eugene should be pretty good!

I plan on being there, you guys coming up? Should be pretty good weather by then in Eugene.

Would be cool, but Dallas is just a couple weeks after that and I don't have that much flexibility yet...I'll be looking for the live updates, though.

DG

[buffalowill]

I hope the voters will finally realize that Texas is way over-rated as usual :/ I just cant figure out what they have done over the last 3 years that warrants a constant presence in the top-25. Losses to San Diego, UCLA, Santa Clara and Chico State the last 2 seasons is NOT top-25 material people!!

I want Texas to have a top program as much as anybody else. I think it would be great for lacrosse and the MCLA. Unfortunately, they are not there yet.
I don't mean to pick on the Longhorns...just want the poll to improve!

[onpoint]

Unfortunately there are only 20 teams in the WCLL, otherwise we could comprise a poll entirely of them!

[CATLAX MAN]

If a team doesn't deserve to be rated in the poll, their conference affiliation should have no bearing on their ranking. If all 20 teams in the WCLL should be ranked, then they should be. This is not youth T-ball where everyone is a winner and everyone should be represented.

[nhoskins]

If a team doesn't deserve to be rated in the poll, their conference affiliation should have no bearing on their ranking. If all 20 teams in the WCLL should be ranked, then they should be. This is not youth T-ball where everyone is a winner and everyone should be represented.

I agree.

Being 8-0 in a crappy conference doesn't necessarily mean you're better than a 4-2 WCLL team. The only way we can compare teams is OOC games, not really overall record (unless against common opponents). I think people have a tendency to vote the best team in each conference somewhere in the top 25, knowing that team will definately make it to Nationals based on AQ. Not saying it's right, but I think that's what voters are up to.

For the conference with less hype/exposure, its hard for voters to get an accurate view of a team. On the forums, all we see is WCLL/RMLC and lately PNCLL... I have a hard time figuring out how good the SELC is for example because of the lack of exposure and live game reporting or recaps. Therefore, it might be easy just to say "Well, FSU was good last time I saw them (in Nationals three years ago), and I don't know anything about any other SELC teams, so they get my vote."

[CPLaxGM]

Unfortunately there are only 20 teams in the WCLL, otherwise we could comprise a poll entirely of them!

Buffalowill is no WCLL homer. He was using UNRANKED teams out of the WCLL to indicate why Texas shouldn't be ranked, not arguing why the WCLL teams should be ranked.

People may grow tired of hearing the WCLL affiliated people discuss the league's depth, but that's an argument that has to be continuously made because people tend to dismiss and/or marginalize any team that doesn't win their league (except for BYU, CSU, and CU). Well, the reality of the situation is that 10, maybe even 15, teams in the WCLL would be in the running for a title in the weaker MCLA leagues.

Since it's easy to dismiss the 7th or 9th or 12th best team in a league as junk, those WCLL teams consistently travel and play OOC schedules to emphasize that their program is solid and that they are striving to be nationally relevant. It's just tough to crack through into that top tier.

On another topic, I wonder what people's thoughts are on the quick rise of UCF. What's the over/under on how many weeks they stay in the poll? Although with the rise of high school lacrosse in Florida, there's no reason that they couldn't be the next big thing but I must admit I'm skeptical.

No one will be surprised if they drop tonight's game against FSU. What about their games against Cal and Santa Clara? If they lose to FSU and beat both the mid-level WCLL squads, then they are ranked about right. But if they drop 2 of 3, then their stay in the polls will be short-lived. Admittedly, I haven't seen them play so I really don't know. Any thoughts from people that saw the UCF vs VTech game? It's always interesting when there's a new face on the MCLA national scene, a la Oakland a few years ago or Oregon's fairly recent rise.

[Timbalaned]

Marc I agree with you on that. It is tough to tell, but these up and coming games will tell a lot about UCF. I personally want to believe that they are good and legit cause I think it is good for the league. But are they going to be a flash in the pan and be hot for a year, maybe two and then fall off, or are they going to be a legit contender for years to come. When I started at Oregon, we came in and finished in the 21-22 range my freshman year and then 4 years later they are playing for a national championship, so it can happen.

[CATLAX MAN]

It is tough to tell, but these up and coming games will tell a lot about UCF.

I think we are getting our definitive answer about this.......hype.