How the MCLA and its Conferences are run

[John Paul]

Ken is vice president in charge of finance, not vp for grammar...as you can see.

One thing that he didn't mention in this post that is important to know is that Ken is also the Club Sports Director at Georgia Tech. He approaches his role as an MCLA EB member from a unique perspective as traditional club sports thinking is quite different in some ways from the direction the MCLA is trying to go. Some progressive schools have embraced that direction (mine included) while most are still either reluctant or uneducated on the benefits. As we evolve, however, so do many club sports departments. As Ken will tell you, we are a growing influence on the way schools think of club sports. That's an important role for our organization, and it's one we take very seriously.

We are also an important part of the evolution and growth of the game itself, and our influence is expanding quickly. That influence doesn't happen if we stay stuck in the past. We are thinking progressively, sometimes out of the box, and I have seen nothing but positives come from that on a macro level. I hope that whoever replaces us on the EB as our terms come to their ends see the same big picture, just as we followed the guys like Jason Lamb, Sonny Pieper, Sam Satdler, Bob Korba, Brian Mosher and Mickey Miles-Felton, who laid the groundwork for where we are now.

Like Ken, I am also always accessible to answer any questions or concerns. Anyone on the EB or BOD would echo that. We are easy to find on the MCLA website.

[Ken Lovic]

ouch... thanks JP. I guess after this many years the GT grammer has rubbed off to me.
I have re-read and make (like that) some changes

[SDSULAX]

DRich17, As a point of clarity, First, what I said without your editing,"The MCLA does not exist to "grow the sport",as in carry teams that cannot conform to rules and guidelines that is not the intent. The growing the sport is by having rules and regulations, structure and consistency. " I said that, I wasn't half way quoting something posted on a website, that came from several years of representing players at the national level. You attest that information on your particular conferences website is inaccurate, that goes back to my previous comment about the level of development of conferences. Second, You have not walked the earth long enough to question my intent, credentials or devotion to the sport or to the protection of the rights of you or other teams both at the Division I and Division II level to participate in a league like the MCLA. I can only hope that your fingers were running before your mind was engaged. Now, even after trying my best to answer your questions, and the thanks you provided to me, absent of an apology by you, I am done with you, you are not worthy of my time.

[DRich17]

Second, You have not walked the earth long enough to question my intent, credentials or devotion to the sport or to the protection of the rights of you or other teams both at the Division I and Division II level to participate in a league like the MCLA. I can only hope that your fingers were running before your mind was engaged. Now, even after trying my best to answer your questions, and the thanks you provided to me, absent of an apology by you, I am done with you, you are not worthy of my time.

[Zamboni_Driver]

Somehow I missed this thread earlier.

If you read my posts, I completely believe that any good product must continuously evaluate itself and evolve if it is going to survive. That is why I track various parameters and challenge certain assumptions.

I think greater understanding of the EOB is a good suggestion. I will start with understanding how one volunteers for an EOB position and how one gets elected for those positions.

Dustin Rich and Kevin O'Brien can help me by posting or sending me a PM on which positions in the MCLA or your respective leagues you wish to hold? And if you can also indicate which years you ran for a post and were denied, we might also be able to determine if there was any fraud or "good old boys" network working against you.

[Pinball]

I sat around a table for 2 days in Denver with JP, Ken Lovic, Bubba Gutherless, Ken Lovic, Rob Graff, John Robinette, Matt Holtz, Craig Miller, Sonny, Tim Gray, Doug Carl, Brian Mosher, Tony Scazzero and Dan Morris (maybe others that i forgot) and was really impressed about how everyone thought of OUR league and how it should be run. Each person listened and were very open to my suggestions. I was shocked by this because i was very intimated by each and every name listed above not only for their accomplishments but the positions that they hold on and off the field. Keep in mind I had just graduated from SJU the previous month, and really had no interaction with the national board of directors, and personally did not really care too, they seemed to be doing a fine job. The opportunity did come up though because at the last minute the UMLL Rep was not going to be able to attended so i got an email asking if i would like to represent the UMLL, as i was the Student Rep. I jumped at the chance, to not only go to Colorado but I also knew that there were not too many Div 2 reps on the board and I had a few things to say.

The first day i really had no idea what to expect, to be honest I thought it was going to be Mike Lamb and JP just preaching to a group of guys who would just nod their heads and smile with everything they threw out there. I was way off, Jason Lamb wasn't even there, and there was very little head shaking like lemmings when issues were brought up. Everything was discussed/argued very intelligently with people backing up their reasons with specific examples that game me an insight into different leagues. There were specific request from conferences from very small things to main topics like how the Championship was run.

One thing that was discussed was how they would like more transparency and get documents posted on mcla.us, but we have to think about this-- even though the MCLA dosent seem new-- it is. Just over a year old. These are legal documents that REAL lawyers are working on in THEIR free time so that WE (yes i am from a tiny school too) can have the best playing experience for four years. I know it maybe a little annoying not to have the transparency now, but in time it will come. Everyone has REAL jobs that was at the meeting, and took THEIR vacation time to sit around a table and talk about improving the MCLA. Specific task were given out to combat the matter that was brought up in the original post.

I am going to be honest, I have been following these boards for about four years and every once and a while someone will come along and stir up some dust in this sort of fashion, which is completely fine in my opinion because it forces people like myself to stand up for people that we have voted into position. In all honesty you will probably graduate next year [dustin] (if your website is up to date) and probably never come back to the MCLA (i am just playing the odds). Instead of making foolish remarks on a public message board calling out members who you have probably never met before that hold a lot higher standing not only in the MCLA but in life you should offer your help to what you see as the problem at hand. I have no idea who you are, but maybe you are an accounting major--- I am sure Ken Lovic would love a little JR. Account it help him with the books, or maybe your a MIS major and you could help out Doug Carl with a SQL database to help manage eligibility. Or maybe it would just take you 2 minutes to-- i dont know, Google-MCLA, and this handy option will come up to take you to a pretty decent webpage. All you have to do from there is "Click" on the "About" section where everyone who was voted in by YOU to represent YOU will be properly displayed. There is even a handy general email box that will get pushed to the powers at hand that can actually answer your question or assist you in getting involved on your SQL developing project. I am not saying that the collegelax.us message boards is not a place to discuss this, just you might as well cover yourself before you make outlandish post where people will jump all over you (i know, i have made the same mistake)

If anyone really wants to ask a question about the board or any issue that they have with please provide me with a question and i can help distribute it to the powers at hand. I know that sending a well thought out PM or Email (google also is a great tool if you want to send a person at power an email ie- Google Ken Lovic and you actually get two email address for him WOW!!) to a Director is intimidating, so if you wish you can send it to the average Lacrosse player that played on a Div 2 team in the middle of central Minnesota. In all honesty though EVERY person on the board is very approachable and has no problem fielding a tough question. If anyone would like to talk about what i had to say/heard at the meeting just ask.

In the GRLC they have an awesome setup where Brian Mosher is not involved with any team, so the discussion about "Comish Mosher is going to take sides of Team X because he is there coach" cannot be had. You should he thankful that he cares enough abut a team like Missouri State to put the time and effort that he does. There are very few people (including myself) that are willing to do that.

Dont complain about something if you are unwilling to help change it.

[DRich17]

So how can I get, let me back up... How is a player able to get information concerning the MCLA's budget? I have been trying to get a hold of one for my own conference and, shock, I've gotten the run around. As a player (and here's a problem that someone brought up earlier), how can I get a hold of information concerning the league and conference without having to dredge my way up the chain of commands?

[CATLAX MAN]

It is no different than people have been telling you in this thread. Contact your team representative who represented your team at the league meeting. If they don't have the information you need, they can point you to your league director who should be able to help. If you still need information, the league director can point you to the conference representative who represented the league at the BOD meetings. If you're still not satisfied correspond with the board members that offered to answer questions, namely JP, Ken Lovic, Jason Stockton, etc.

[Kevin OBrien]

Dustin Rich and Kevin O'Brien can help me by posting or sending me a PM on which positions in the MCLA or your respective leagues you wish to hold? And if you can also indicate which years you ran for a post and were denied, we might also be able to determine if there was any fraud or "good old boys" network working against you.

I've held the position of SELC Division B Director in the past and am the current head coach at USC. We last won (or even went) to the SELC Tourny back in '96. When I took over the program in '98, we had several abismal seasons. We had our first trip to the SELC Championship last year, and I won coach of the year. If you want I can also send you a resume of my professional accomplishments, or you can read my bio at www.gamecocklacrosse.com. I hope that satisfies your curiosity.

At any rate, I find it somewhat laughable to be called out by name by someone who goes under a moniker. I also find it funny that the negativity isn't coming from Ken or John, but from people with little to no relation to the EB. At the very least, it's frightning that I'm being attacked by nameless members of some board (bulliten board, not the executive board who have been more than cordial and have provided well thought out and informative posts) for asking questions. It's freakin lame.

I do stand by that transparency in an organization is the best way to stop such questions, not by anonymous attacks on the internet. I haven't responded since it's clear that we're headed in that direction, thanks to Ken and John's efforts. I enjoy being able to look at the income and expense report for the SELC (hey, I'm an accountant, don't make fun) and (most importantly) being able to justify the cost to nosy sports club directors (who year after year suggest that we just get out of the SELC and MCLA because they don't see the value). Needless to say, I give their opinion of the MCLA about as much creedence as your opinion of me and others who have the questions (and, I guess, in the face of such attacks, the courage) to ask them, and even (gasp) sign their name to them.

Edit: I am furthermore insulted by your assertation of a good ole boy network. Until you live in SC, you have no idea the meaning of the term.

Editx2: We run for posts?

[DRich17]

Here's a problem I have.

I spent the last 20 minutes re-reading this entire thread, paying careful attention to everything i wrote. Not once did I come out and say, point blank, I have a problem with this, because this happened. I never once fabricated any amount of information and sold it as fact. I wrote a lot about what if this happens, or what if this doesn't happen, but not once did I come out and say, "The MCLA sucks because one time I loaned them $5 and they never paid me back." My entire posts we of hypothetical scenarios and "what ifs". I challenge someone to point out something I've missed.

What did I get and who did I get it from?

-I had one member of a conference's Executive Board tell me that I was too young to question him and that I owed him an apology.
-I had someone else tell me that they pittied me for my views (keep in mind they are all, and have been all opinions, nothing fabricated), that person also told me I was lazy and arrogant, and how sad I was to live in such a state of paranoid existence
-someone else told me how shocked and appalled they were that I had such conspiracy theories (correct me if I'm wrong, but even if I do, isn't that my right to have and discuss?)
-someone else told me the problem wasn't with the league it was with me, and that once again I should do more work to find out the answers.
-someone else told me I was whining and complaining and that these questions should have been discussed with my coach.
-someone else told me that I was insulting people who had been around the league for a very long time.

I am grateful first off that I was able, and those around me, were able to voice our own thoughts and opinions.

I can't wrap my mind around how absolutely condescending some have been in this post. I have researched most everything that was suggested in the past 3 days, and have yet to get a copy of a budget on either the league or conf level (im impatient i know so that can wait a while longer).
I can't understand how personal this had to get. In these rooms and forums of free speech there should be no required pre-requesite of information. We should not shoot someone down for voiceing their ill-informed opionion, does anyone remember the old say, "there's no such thing as a stupid question". That can't be said in here.

I would like to mention that this has been one of the fastest growing threads ive ever seen. Over 1,700 people have viewed it in under 72 hours.

I would like to also add that I have received, I dont know how to say this, someone stole my 'popular vote' and now i no longer have 2 stars by my name its just 3 little dots... I won't touch that one.

I strongly encourage anyone, young, old, player, coach, someone whos been a member for a week or 3 years, to ask questions and don't be afriad. This has been the best decision of my college lacrosse career, as I have experienced first hand, what Ive heard so much about. I have received numerous private messages in support, and a couple in disgust, of the things Ive said, and once again I encourage everyone else to be heard.

It is our personal obligation, as players and coaches, to ask questions, listen to and try the responses, and ask more questions. Engage your mind in public dialogue and don't be afriad.

I applaud all those who spoke freely and openly, and I thank collegelax.us for giving us all the oppurtunity...

To quote arnold...

[Sonny]

I would like to also add that I have received, I dont know how to say this, someone stole my 'popular vote' and now i no longer have 2 stars by my name its just 3 little dots... I won't touch that one.

Keep spining the conspiracy theories....

Actually, it is the reputation (voting) system, a feature of the message board where other folks can rate & comment on your posts. More info here:
http://forums.collegelax.us/viewtopic.php?t=6332

[Sonny]

I wrote a lot about what if this happens, or what if this doesn't happen, but not once did I come out and say, "The MCLA sucks because one time I loaned them $5 and they never paid me back." My entire posts we of hypothetical scenarios and "what ifs". I challenge someone to point out something I've missed.

Right.....

Just like this "hypothetical" situation you described earlier in this thread which was "hypothetically" similar to the Missouri State/Missouri no contest in the GRLC from last April.

Example (hypothetical): Team A is scheduled to play Team B. Game is to be held at Team A's place. Team A can't get a field, so they call Team B and re-schedule. Now Team B is headed up to play Team A and Team A calls Team B and says, sorry we still don't have a field, tell your guys to turn around and go home, we can't play. Let's say Team B has made every effort to play Team A, but Team A essentially forfeits.

[DRich17]

1. KEEP IT CIVIL; DO NOT "FLAME"; ATTACKS ON MCLA TEAMS/CONFERENCES/PLAYERS NOT ALLOWED; NO CURSE WORDS ALLOWED
Do not personalize any post. Debate vs. flaming: This is a friendly place. Debate is encouraged, but flaming is not allowed. Flaming is personally attacking someone. For example, saying "Any idiot knows that isn't true" is flaming because the person was just called an idiot, while "I passionately disagree" is not flaming even though it's rather emotionally charged. “Attacks” on MCLA players, coaches, teams, conferences, referees, and/or administrators are not allowed under any circumstances. Finally no curse words are allowed on the message forums. Inserting characters for curse words is not an acceptable substitute!

Bottom line -- If you can’t make your point with out disparaging another member of the MCLA community, then do not make it on CollegeLAX. Treat others as you would like to be treated.


Just trying to follow the rules big guy.

Sony is refering to a post that was brought up dealing with a situation involving our team and another last year. The topic was put on a thread and later shut down, by the site admin.

Of all people, Sony, I would think you would know the importance of, yes, keeping it all hypothetical

By the way I would be glad to inform anyone of what happened between our team and that other team last year, through an email or PM, not on this board.

I have to be honest, I thought this board would get snubber right off, turns our Sony thought I was doing more just by talking than he could've done by shutting it down. It's turned out to work pretty well huh?

[DRich17]

Oh and I guess polling the specific question of,
"How many people would be up for an MCLA Transparency?"
was too much, which is fine really I just thought it'd be easier to give it its own poll.

So if you would (even if you have already) post if you would like for transparency in the MCLA

[Ben Clark]

Dustin, what about the excellent responses you've received from Ken and JP? They are two of the top dogs in the MCLA, and they've just offered to answer any questions you may have. Instead of focusing on the negative responses, why don't you try contacting them, and then reporting back here with what you find out?