Veterans Day Speech

[sohotrightnow]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/11/vetera ... index.html

"The enemies who attacked us six years ago want to strike our country again, and next time they hope to kill Americans on a scale that will make 9/11 pale by comparison."

- GW

So does this mean Saudi Arabia has an attack planned? Can any political scientists on this board help me with this one?

Mr. Bush, you are killing Americans on a scale that will soon make 9/11 pale by comparison. What a loser.

[Steno]

yay! The old sohot is back!

Well, Bush left it very open ended as to who he thought would attack us next - Iranians, Saudis, French...

Don't most people still think Saddam had a hand in 9/11?

[Steno]

Aw come on, where are all the republicans? No comments on the Olbermann piece or on this. I guess that conservatives don't like going on the defensive. At least conservatives who puruse online lacrosse discussion forums.

[sohotrightnow]

Here's their rebuttal: "You hate America!"

[peterwho]

Here's their rebuttal: "You hate America!"

Heavens no!

Ms. Pelosi is right. We need to go visit our friends in the Middle East and spend more time talking to them.

9/11 was an isolated incident - they were trying to help us understand we needed to take a stronger stance against the debauchery coming from Hollywood and the White House.

If we're smart, we'll elect Obama. He's of the same mind. We'll all get along. The insurgents will go home and the Iraqis will have a much easier time as our invading forces are quickly withdrawn. We can put the National Guard to work on our southern border helping to process our "guest workers" to ensure they get everything the rich in America can provide.

(soho, where'd you go - did I do OK?)

[Beta]

Mr. Bush, you are killing Americans on a scale that will soon make 9/11 pale by comparison. What a loser.

(#'s rounded)
9-11 Casualties: 2800

US Military Casualties in Afghanistan: 450
US Military Casualties in Iraq: 3800

(http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/)

[Sonny]

Who is Olbermann?

[Adam Gamradt]

Another thread linked to a Keith Olbermann piece.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/67043/

[sohotrightnow]

(soho, where'd you go - did I do OK?)

I apologize sir. Some dirty liberal hacked into my account and said all of those anti-American things about GW, who in my honest opinion, has been the greatest president of the 21st century. Yes, I agree with everything you stated kind sir.

[Dan Wishengrad]

A fitting question for Veteran's Day:

Why does the Bush White House still ban any and all film or still-photo imagery of caskets of dead American soldiers being shown on television or in newspapers and magazines? Why would honoring the sacrifice made by our veterans exclude the supreme sacrifice?

PS This particular Olberman commentary is one of the best written, most chilling and most damning commentary on the Bush Presidency I have ever heard. It should be re-played in every poli sci class and debated publicly. Who could have guessed back in the '90s that the most insightful AND eloquent political commentator in the United States was actually working as a sports anchorman on ESPN?

IMPEACHMENT NOW!

[Steno]

Bush and his cronies have disgraced this nation and those of the Federalist Society are behind all of this evisceration of our Constitution and nations great traditions..!

Where ever to smell the putrid stench of death and disgrace the federalist Society and it's members are nearby or behind any of this evil and growing fascism and defecation upon our Constitution...

Since Bush 43 knows he has these Federalist Society usurpers in the wings and that they have infested the Justice dept. and now infecting and perverting our Supreme Court Bush has little to fear in pushing his fascist family agenda upon America as he and his corporate fascist buddies plunder the Treasury and drag America down...

For me this issue goes way behind just Waterboarding as bad as it is you must think in a linear fashion see how all the pieces fit as I watched Valerie Plame Wilson tonight and how Bush and his cronies and sycophants have broken law after law the FISA Law, the NSA, the FBI and all those NSL letters NSPD-51 HSPD-20 Bush Executive order 14348 all of which turn America into a Dictatorship just as Bush' buddy Musharraf did this week ..

Keith really did a great job this time and we can see how his rhetoric is growing in anger as mine has been for some years now...

Fascism can be a slow insidious process it is incremental in many cases and we loose Our freedom and our soul as American not all in one huge action but by increment...

Now we see the Charles Schumer and Diane Feinstein have joined the fascists willingly and will lend their votes to America's ruination and further disgrace..As Schumer is a disgrace he being a Senator of my state..and no better than a sled dog and far from the front of the pack with his snout deeply embedded in Bush's intrigues...

From the Olbermann discussion thread. Niiiiiice. Wish I could write as angrily as that.

[Beta]

Why does the Bush White House ban any and all film or still-photo imagery of caskets of dead American soldiers being shown on television or in newspapers and magazines? Why would honoring the sacrifice made by our veterans exclude the supreme sacrifice?

Some would say "out of respect", others would say "so the public will oppose the war".

Both sides have viable cases. I could definitely see people saying that caskets aren't shown because it will make the public angry that our soldiers are dying, and go against the war (Vietnam). Or perhaps they don't want the media to basically have a measuring contest for how many caskets can be shown on TV, basically objectifying their sacrifice for ratings.

Either way, doubtful it'll change.

[Steno]

I'd say the argument against showing out of respect is weak at best. Following that line of logic, why does the Vietnam Memorial have all the names of the dead? Isn't that another sort of justification? We're all living with our heads in the sand (or in our butts) if we refuse to look at those hundreds of faces who've lost the green fire of life from their eye.

Not showing the dead is jut another way for Bush to keep Americans out of America's war. Besides your friends over there (I have some, too) do any of us 'feel' this war? Bush continues to spew that we should all just go on with our lives as if nothing is going on.

[Zeuslax]

Gamradt wrote:

Another thread linked to a Keith Olbermann piece.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/67043/

Good night and good luck Mr. McCarthy......................

[Zamboni_Driver]

A slow day so a few points - and I'll take the devil's advocate side:

1. The ban was implemented in 1991 after images of our fallen soldiers from the Somalia activities were shown on a split screen with President Bush addressing the nation. A similar ban/directive was re-given in 2000 under the Clinton administration. During all administrations the ban was lifted for certain memorials. Regardless of who controls Congress no legislative effort has been mounted against this ban. Looks like both sides want this ban, to cover themselves, and to use it against the others.

2. Every 9/11 there is a large call by some people to not show so many images of the planes hitting the trade towers. There is even a larger push not to show the people jumping from the towers to their death. Is this out of respect for dead or desire not to have these images used to generate more fear?

3. The US governments and the US people get very upset when dead US soldiers appear on Al Jezzera or other foreign media outlets. If we are willing to show our dead we have to be willing to watch the way they show our dead. You may argue there is a large difference between a coffin and a fully bloody body - but then thats just a grey scale, not a yes or no. Our stance against those foreign media outlets would be weekend, and our boys and girls could be used as propaganda without much recourse.

The big question is can we get passed our biases about the conflicts that create fallen soldiers and get to the root question of how is the best way to honor the dead, while conveying the sacrifice to the people? This way the ban or lack there of, doesn't get used for political purposes.

A simple suggestion, is allow families to decide. Create a 2 base/1 day return system. 1 base would be no media, the other base full media. Families decide which base their loved ones return to. Only images from that day can be displayed in media outlets for that 1 day. (this goes to a secret hate of mine that 24 hour media rolls footage without dates in the upper corner)