Deadliest Year, Impeachment & Bush at lowest approval ev

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Deadliest Year, Impeachment & Bush at lowest approval ev

Postby OAKS on Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:10 pm

2007 has been the deadliest year in Iraq for Americans thus far.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gkx- ... wD8SO5Q883

Kucinich' Impeachment resolutions is voted to be sent to the Judiciary Committee (whatever that means, I'm not up to snuff on all that), with all but 5 Democrats voting Yes and all but 3 Republicans voting no.

Also,
Meanwhile, Bush reached an unwelcome record. By 64%-31%, Americans disapprove of the job he is doing. For the first time in the history of the Gallup Poll, 50% say they "strongly disapprove" of the president. Richard Nixon had reached the previous high, 48%, just before an impeachment inquiry was launched in 1974.


http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/ne ... 06.art.htm

And Democrat-led congress still has an abysmal approval rating as well.[/quote]
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Postby sohotrightnow on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:17 pm

I suppose you got these "facts" from the NY Times or some other liberal rag. Please check www.foxnews.com. I don't see anything about it being the deadliest month in Iraq mentioned on that site. The liberal media strikes again! No wonder their ratings are down the tubes! All they do is spread lies! We are winning the war! Bring em on!
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Postby OAKS on Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:46 am

sohotrightnow wrote:We are winning the war! Bring em on!


Mission Accomplished, heh 8)
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Postby Sonny on Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:08 am

OAKS wrote: Mission Accomplished, heh 8)


And the flip side of the discussion is that the surge is working. Casualties in Iraq per month are on a rapid decline.

The noticeable drop in U.S. and Iraqi deaths in recent months follows a 30,000-strong U.S. force buildup, along with a six-month cease-fire order by radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, among other factors. There were 39 deaths in October, compared to 65 in September and 84 in August.


At the end of the day - the combined number of American deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan in over 4 years of combat wouldn't surpass a few days during WW1, WW2, or the Civil War.

But the AP would have you believe we are losing soldiers faster in Iraq then we did during the Battle of the Bulge with their constant reminders of "grim milestones." I guess if the message fits the liberal media's agenda...
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Postby BucLax13 on Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:12 am

Maybe one of our stat savvy individuals on the board can do a z-test> Is the one month drop in the death rate statistically significant?

"...reality has a well-known liberal bias" Pappi Colbert

At the end of the day - the combined number of American deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan in over 4 years of combat wouldn't surpass a few days during WW1, WW2, or the Civil War.


That is an apples to oranges argument... in those battles the enemies wore different colored uniforms and carried guns to battlefields.... they also had obtainable ways to win...

If you really want to win this "war" impose the draft just like your aformentioned wars...
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Postby Gvlax on Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:28 am

not sure how you can compare this war to any other war, just like you can not compare ww2 to any other war. This war is different than any other war we have fought. People want to generalize that all wars are the same and compare but this can not be done. A better argument would be to compare the Iraq war to the opposition in germany following WW2. Did you really think the nazis all gave up and went back to peace following the war?



I suppose you got these "facts" from the NY Times or some other liberal rag. Please check www.foxnews.com. I don't see anything about it being the deadliest month in Iraq mentioned on that site. The liberal media strikes again! No wonder their ratings are down the tubes! All they do is spread lies! We are winning the war! Bring em on!


Why would a conservative news (foxnews) publish negative stats about the war they love? The media chooses what they air, of course a liberal media network will post negative stats about the war that they dont want. Then again is any news media that liberal? I mean go look at the owners, i bet they are not voting democrat. Foxnews is just extreme convservative.
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Postby Sonny on Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:31 am

U.S. credits troop buildup, but residents and observers say homogenization has brought relative calm.

By Ned Parker, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
November 1, 2007

BAGHDAD -- Iraq's civilian body count in October was less than half that at its height in January, reflecting both the tactical successes of this year's U.S. troop buildup and the lasting impact of waves of sectarian death squad killings, car bombings and neighborhood purges.

October also marked the lowest monthly death toll for American troops, 36 fatalities, since March 2006, when 31 were killed, according to icasualties.org.

American commanders credit the buildup, which reached full strength in June, with slowing sectarian bloodshed.

They say the decision to send 28,500 more troops to Iraq has made a difference by allowing them to send soldiers to live on the fault lines between Sunni Arab and Shiite neighborhoods in Baghdad, and to conduct sweeping offensives in provinces east and south of the capital against strongholds of Shiite Muslim militias and Sunni militants linked to foreign insurgents.


http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-fg-violence1nov01,1,2958691.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
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Postby DanGenck on Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:35 am

Sonny wrote:
OAKS wrote: Mission Accomplished, heh 8)


And the flip side of the discussion is that the surge is working. Casualties in Iraq per month are on a rapid decline.

The noticeable drop in U.S. and Iraqi deaths in recent months follows a 30,000-strong U.S. force buildup, along with a six-month cease-fire order by radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, among other factors. There were 39 deaths in October, compared to 65 in September and 84 in August.


At the end of the day - the combined number of American deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan in over 4 years of combat wouldn't surpass a few days during WW1, WW2, or the Civil War.

But the AP would have you believe we are losing soldiers faster in Iraq then we did during the Battle of the Bulge with their constant reminders of "grim milestones." I guess if the message fits the liberal media's agenda...


My grandfather and my great uncle fought in the Battle of the Bulge. I think they would agree that comparing WWII to Iraq is a poor comparison.

I think they're right. Iraq is a conflict. It measures up poorly to WWII.
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Postby Beta on Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:48 am

In WWII you could point out where the Nazi's were on a global map, along with Japan.

Not so much with Iraq...it's on a surface street map...under mosques, hospitals, etc etc.

HAHAHA Fox News. I love reading it...it's like the funny papers.
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Postby Sonny on Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:32 am

Beta wrote:In WWII you could point out where the Nazi's were on a global map, along with Japan.

Not so much with Iraq...it's on a surface street map...under mosques, hospitals, etc etc.


Which makes the accomplishments of our military over there even more impressive. Never before have we faced an enemy like this and never before has the US Military covered so much terrain with such little casualties.
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Postby Dan Wishengrad on Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:16 pm

I love trudeau's take on this very debate:

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2007/db071106.gif
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Postby Dan Wishengrad on Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:41 pm

This debate we are having here will certainly be the key to who wins the Presdidential election in '08.

Right or wrong, the Democratic nominee will be opposed to the war and will be pledged to end it.

Right or wrong, the Republican nominee will be supportive of the war and will be pledged to continue to support it.

Anybody care to bet me that the Democratic nominee will therefore win the popular vote, and in a landslide of at least 10 percentage points?
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Postby Adam Gamradt on Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:57 pm

Sonny wrote:
U.S. credits troop buildup, but residents and observers say homogenization has brought relative calm.

By Ned Parker, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
November 1, 2007

BAGHDAD -- Iraq's civilian body count in October was less than half that at its height in January, reflecting both the tactical successes of this year's U.S. troop buildup and the lasting impact of waves of sectarian death squad killings, car bombings and neighborhood purges.

October also marked the lowest monthly death toll for American troops, 36 fatalities, since March 2006, when 31 were killed, according to icasualties.org.

American commanders credit the buildup, which reached full strength in June, with slowing sectarian bloodshed.

They say the decision to send 28,500 more troops to Iraq has made a difference by allowing them to send soldiers to live on the fault lines between Sunni Arab and Shiite neighborhoods in Baghdad, and to conduct sweeping offensives in provinces east and south of the capital against strongholds of Shiite Muslim militias and Sunni militants linked to foreign insurgents.


http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-fg-violence1nov01,1,2958691.story?ctrack=1&cset=true


Make sure you read the whole article.

"But others say that the picture is more complicated than that because those seeking to cleanse their neighborhoods of rival religious sects have largely succeeded."

"Everyone in our neighborhood is Sunni, even the birds flying above us are Sunni," said Mohammed Azzawi, a resident of the once mixed district of Ghazaliya.

"A year ago, his street was a battleground between Shiite and Sunni militants. Now it is segregated between its Shiite northern tip and its Sunni south.

Moreover, American forces have felt it necessary to make tacit deals with groups that have been involved in the sectarian cleansing, and many Baghdad residents who have not been killed have fled. The number of people displaced internally in Iraq has risen to 2.25 million, and an additional 2 million have left the country."
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Postby StrykerFSU on Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:00 pm

Just for the record:

But it (impeachment) became a partisan issue yesterday once Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) moved to table Kucinich's resolution. Hoyer and Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) have said they will not back such symbolic gestures, for fear of burnishing Congress's current do-nothing image.

During the subsequent vote, Republicans were far along toward helping kill the resolution when they began switching their "yes" votes to "no's," clearly hoping for a public debate that would have showcased the Democrats' most vocal lefties.

But in the end, Hoyer settled for sending the resolution to the Judiciary Committee. There it is destined for oblivion.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/06/AR2007110602000_pf.html

It appears that even most prominent Dems wanted nothing to do with Kucinich's lunacy.
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Postby Gvlax on Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:03 pm

Sonny wrote:
Beta wrote:In WWII you could point out where the Nazi's were on a global map, along with Japan.

Not so much with Iraq...it's on a surface street map...under mosques, hospitals, etc etc.


Which makes the accomplishments of our military over there even more impressive. Never before have we faced an enemy like this and never before has the US Military covered so much terrain with such little casualties.


I hope no one will say that the job that the men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan is not as good as the job done by the troops in WW2. They face two different enemies, which the troops in Iraq have a much tougher job. It has to be scary to not know whether that group of what looks like civilians might be a group of armed men waiting to ambush you.

I think we thought there was going to be a major win with our infantry and tanks who would collide with the strong infantry of Iraq but this never happened. we were met with a enemy that used old tactics to shake up our military, forcing us to adapt to a urban landscape.

when will it end? or will this war ever end?
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