CC Hockey Players go Blackface

[BB]

Steno,
I am in agreement. Dressing like an Indian is a perpetuation of a stereotype, and goofing around with heritage (Side note: I think I have used perpetuate more times than ever in this discussion)

Dressing like a Pop Culture TV show isn't, no matter if they are black, white, Latino, Chinese, Japanese Dirty knees look at these.

Now if they dressed black and came in as some Zulu Tribal leader and made fun of it all day. Like many do with "Indian Halloween costumes" I could see the issue.

Thats my point maybe I wasn't clear in my writing.

I still think people take their heritage too seriously sometimes, just join the melting pot and get stirred around with the rest of the cheese.

[Jester]

I understand what the kids were going for in the case, and they probably should just be subjected to a very harsh talking to, but it really can't be said enough that some wounds simply don't heal that fast, if at all.

When we use the word ancestor or suggest things "happened in the past" it suggests that it isn't still happening in a pervasive way. It was less than two generations ago that black people were murdered by the arm of the law itself. I have professors under the age of 60 who were shot at while working as civil right organizers down in Mississippi . I'd bet a lot most of us have heard an otherwise goodhearted grandparent say something quietly racist and just thought to ourselves "Its from a different generation". It is handed down with amazing regularity. The father from American History X is a terrific character representation of it.

The blackface is still a bad thing, however innocently intended, because of the long, long time that it was not innocently intended. There is absolutely no tradition in the U.S. of it being an innocous thing. It can't be transformed. It iis almost better that it remain a third rail as a reminder of what once was.

The mindsets must be confronted intentionally and explicitly, lest they ride just under the surface because "if we don't talk about it, it will sort itself out", as if that has ever happened in the history of humankind. That's how anti-Semitism was totally eradicated, right? That's why sexism has been completely dealt with, because women lightened up about it. Right?

[BB]

So never truly get over anything?

I never said ignore true issues of racism. I just don't believe this to be one of them. I of course wasnt' there so I can't truly vouch for intent, but this seems harmless. I was writing to it; as if one of my friends or myself had done the same thing.

Racism is happening. I agree, but we need to focus on where it is happening. Not on a silly costume.

Blackfacing is no longer happening and shouldn't be treated like it is. If it does happen in illogical ways then someone needs to smack around the people that are taking part.

It's terrible about your professor's. I thank them for what they did to stand up for the rights of other humans.

It was 2 generations ago, and hopefully in 2 generations people won't even know what we are talking about because it will be that far removed.

lest they ride just under the surface because "if we don't talk about it, it will sort itself out", as if that has ever happened in the history of humankind

Never once did I say not to speak to issues of blatant or underlying racism. You should and do so with gusto. But there is no reason to be slightly offended by the costume of kids goofing around with popular culture, because then you'll miss the real ill intented racism.

[Danny Hogan]

would it be different if they taped their eyes horizontally and said they were jackie chan? i think most people would find that out of line...

[BB]

I am not one of those people that would be offended. Just like I don't get offended when someone puts a gorrila costume on to make fun of my hairy chest.

I don't know why we have to avoid racially different physical/cultural differences, they are there, are they funny sometimes. Like Dave Chapell immitating white people, it's all funny if you don't take it too seriously.

I don't know, I don't think a jackie chan costume would be that funny unless he was somehow doing his own stunts. Thats what I mean, get over the fact that we are different and stop trying to pretend we aren't; realize we are and have some fun with it.

[Danny Hogan]

I don't know, I don't think a jackie chan costume would be that funny unless he was somehow doing his own stunts. Thats what I mean, get over the fact that we are different and stop trying to pretend we aren't; realize we are and have some fun with it.

assuming neither costume was funny.

what about someone dressing up like a rabbi with a big fake nose?

[BB]

It's done all the time, except the nose thing can be a little misleading, you should see the shnoz on my brother in law

Except seldom do people take much offense to it, unless there is bad will behind it.

A better comparison would be a black guy dressing up as Seinfeld. Who cares, I would crack up at the ridiculousness of it, not the fact that a black guy was making fun of a Jewish comedian. THings are funny because they seem out of place.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I think.

[jessexy]

Blackfacing is no longer happening and shouldn't be treated like it is. If it does happen in illogical ways then someone needs to smack around the people that are taking part.

If blackface is no longer happening, why do these kids do it? Texas A&M Univ. was in the news a couple of years ago for a frat "Ghetto" Party in which kids dressed in Black face and made fake chains and wore colored bandannas. Its not funny. last i checked, Dave Chappelle was Dave Chappelle, not any of these kids. Seinfeld is the same. people pay to see them make jokes and release. these "kids" made an adult decision to dress in an inappropriate manner and there are consequences for that.

[dulax19]

on a sidenote CC swept the golden rodents this weekend, 3-1 and 2-1 in OT great weekend for a tiger fan here

[Kevin OBrien]

If the perpetuation of stereotypes is not a "real issue," then what is? I like the dialogue that has been opened as a result of this issue, and if anything that is reason enough to bring it to light.

As for intent (I know this is going to come off as ridiculous, but) there is not intent behind vehicular manslaughter, yet our society has deemed it necessary to have a punishment for it.

Is it Family Matters that is prepetuating stereotypes? Would you find the one dressed up and acting like Erkle as offensive as the one acting like Eddie?

As for the "ghetto party" is it equally offensive to see a white guy who really likes rap music dress up the same way? There have been black fraternities that have "whiteface" parties. Is that alright?

How about the annual bastardization of the Irish culture on Saint Patrick's day?

I guess racism only works one way and white people can't ever be offended, right?

They were doing a parody of tv characters, not black people in general. I guess Halloween in and of itself is a prejudiced holiday?

[TheBearcatHimself]

As for the "ghetto party" is it equally offensive to see a white guy who really likes rap music dress up the same way? There have been black fraternities that have "whiteface" parties. Is that alright?

How about the annual bastardization of the Irish culture on Saint Patrick's day?

I guess racism only works one way and white people can't ever be offended, right?

White people who like rap don't wear black face (at least if they have some brain power), if they did they would fall into this same offensive category.

The people of the Irish culture were never enslaved and traded as objects for the better part of 5 centuries. Also, Irish is a nationality and not an entire race, completely incomparable.

Saying racism is a one-way street is an oversimplification of this issue, but in this case you must understand that the power dynamic between affluent white college students and the poor, slave-generation ancestors of millions of modern black American is greatly tilted towards the whites students. It is not at all the same for a black man to wear "white face" to make a joke about white people. Keeping it simple you must just understand that blacks never systematically enslaved the white race and became the hegemonic culture in America. They were/are never in the position of power to demean whites on a racial level.

On top of what others have already voiced, intent does not matter with a white over black social dynamic. We live in a culture that has been dominated by whites for centuries and in an attempt to right past wrongs we cannot let these pervasive acts of racism persist regardless of intent, because regardless of whatever intent they are in the end offensive.

[Kevin OBrien]

Might want to brush up on your irish history before you make such strong assertions. Ever heard of Cromwell? To me it seems the problem is the focus on the color of skin. Besides, prejudice is prejudice any way you slice it. Also, what connection does slavery happening 200 years ago have to current day? Explain to me how double standards make that better...

As for attempting to right past wrongs, that's impossible. The only thing you can do is move forward fairly, which is not being done. Does this mean that we should give some sort of advantage to people based on a skin color for two centuries to be "even"? No doubt that slavery was a blight in our history, but this kind of "protection" only serves to widen the void between races rather then mend.

As for a culture being dominated by whites, that is one of the dumbest things I've heard. Ever look at MTV? Blacks have had a huge influence in the arts, sports, music...all the very thread in the fabric of our culture. White people making excuses and keeping those training wheels on seems to me to be more insulting than anything.

[BB]

As for the Irish, my heritage. There was slavery they were indentured servants. They did live in the ghetto and were treated unfairly. Race and Nationality are closely related. the only true difference is physical. You could say race is the nationality of continents.

But due to skin color and no definate way to stand out, as the Irish made strides over time they blended into society.

I think a "gangster" party is really satirical of a "gangster" culture . The same as the "Ivy League" party I attended in College in which I wore a sweater vest tight white shorts and carried a tennis racquet to. Now it might be a little closer to the line if they were portraying strictly black gangs, but at the same time. Many of the gangs in the US are racially oriented. I don't know details of the situation and maybe it was worse than it sounds, but I truly doubt it was a rip on "black people" as it was a rip on Gangsters many of whom are black, and were the basis of the modern gang(not historical gangs, many of whom were indeed white and yet still based on ethnicity). Gold Chains, Bandana's and one pant leg rolled up are a reality of a gang/urban culture that is in the mainstream of society these days and thus should be fair game for satire; whether it is Jon Stewart or some frat boy having his own fun.

I think Kevin said it best "Move Forward". As there is no possible way to make the history of past generations equitable, especially when it wasn't. You can only do what you can to move forward, and treat fairly and justly those that are truly mistreated and deal with there offenders correctly. Like Mel Gibson or Kramer. Those are the people you need to focus your energy on.

And why is Chapelle different? Yes people pay to see him and he is trying to make people laugh. These kids were doing the same thing trying to make friends laugh. Jut because one is paid to do it doesn't make it any different?