Cat Stevens

[Beta]

Cecil is but one man, no? His experiences may differ from others who have lived in Middle East countries.

Possibly. I would love to hear of anyone living in any Islamic society (that's not Americanized) where the women aren't treated like dogs. Oh wait....

[sohotrightnow]

Possibly. I would love to hear of anyone living in any Islamic society (that's not Americanized) where the women aren't treated like dogs. Oh wait....

I lived in Alabama for 3 years. Everyone there is an inbred idiot who:

1.Hopes that the South will rise once again
2.Thinks that black people are 4th class citizens
3.Thinks homosexuals are the root of all evil
4.Has yet to discover dentistry

I would love to hear if anyone living there thinks otherwise. Oh wait...

[Sonny]

Cecil is but one man, no? His experiences may differ from others who have lived in Middle East countries.

Maybe not...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq9MTeA7V_k[/youtube]

[Beta]

I lived in Alabama for 3 years. Everyone there is an inbred idiot who:

1.Hopes that the South will rise once again
2.Thinks that black people are 4th class citizens
3.Thinks homosexuals are the root of all evil
4.Has yet to discover dentistry

I would love to hear if anyone living there thinks otherwise. Oh wait...

Well comparing 3,000,000 white people in Alabama is OBVIOUSLY comparable to an entire religion/culture of roughly a billion people. Esp when it's like Mississippi Burning there everyday (not so much). Regardless, people's individual dislike for one another is not the same thing as a culture/religion that degregates women/children and gives them zero rights whatsoever.

But at least the people in the state of Alabama that do feel oppressed can vote to make a change, or I dunno...speak in public and not get stoned/hot-acid-in-the-face unlike the women of Islam.

I recently interviewed this muslim woman in the 100+ degree heat and she said that she individually CHOSE to wear the burka...because female individuality is preached.



(Disclaimer: Woman was later stoned via an honor killing for talking to another man)

[mholtz]

Sonny said, "Why is it my job to understand these people that are coming to my country?" With all due respect I'll explain my opinion why.

We've gone to war before. We did best in war when we understood our enemy (i.e. when they were basically made up of people like us). We fought the English (we were mostly englishmen then), the Germans twice (heck, I'm about 1/2 german). We did well in those wars. We messed up reconstructing Germany after WW I, and guess what we got a few years later, but we were able to beat them again.

The reason we need to understand them is that when you go to war, preemptive or not, against an enemy you don't know, and don't understand (see Korea, Vietnam, Iraq) with the intention of conquering the foe (that was not our intention in Desert Storm) we do badly because we make the mistake of imposing our values on them in defeat.

We went to war on our terms in Iraq. We dictated our terms to them, and quickly defeated the dictator who was in power. We fought a conventional war against an army made up of brigades, and regiments, and batallions and such. We did EXTREMELY well both in Desert Storm, and in the initial invasion in 2003.

What we failed to know as a nation, and as a culture is that the culture we have (patriotism, democracy and capitalism) is completely foreign to them. We attempted to impose on them our system, our laws, our ideals when in fact these were all completely foreign to the Iraqi, and muslim middle eastern peoples.

In the US, people see themselves as American Catholics, or American Methodists, or American Jews. In Islam they see themselves as Muslims, not Iraqis or Saudis or Egyptians, just Muslims. They differentiate between Suni and Shia, sort of like christians do between Catholics and Protestants.

Our failure to understand their culture was a major reason we got stuck in this quagmire. Condoleeza Rice is an expert on Eastern Europe. Colin Powell is an expert in conventional warfare. Dick Cheney is an expert on... well, he's an expert on the american political system.

The first rule in Tsun Tsu's "The Art of War" is to know your enemy. That was our fatal flaw.

THAT is why it is our job as Americans to understand and learn about their culture. It's not some idealistic "hippie" (sorry) lovey dovey be good to everyone reason. I know we are at war. I disagreed with the invasion of Iraq, but I also know that in order to win a war you need to know your enemy, and you need to bring a nation to war, not a military. This administration and this nation did neither.

[LaxRef]

Sonny said, "Why is it my job to understand these people that are coming to my country?" With all due respect I'll explain my opinion why.

Well, and the other answer is that everyone in this country is descended from immigrants (even the Native Americans, although there was no one here when they immigrated). Isn't it hypocritical to say that America is about freedom and then to tell people who move here that they should act just like us? And if they move here legally and become citizens, what makes it "your" country any more than it is theirs? Because you were here first? Be glad your ancestors were allowed to move here.

It always strikes me as odd that we're perfectly okay with, say, Canadians, Aussies and Brits that move here because they're "like us," but we have some real issues with people who move here who speak different languages or don't look like us.