Why have there been no terrorist attacks?

[Beta]

How about Catholics bombing Protestants and vice-versa? I guess those are both extreme "religions" that are really masking terrorist organizations at heart.

There is a difference between being a certain religion and being a member of a terrorist organization, and being a certain religion and being a member of a terrorist organization that kills in the name of their god. That's like saying someone that's Christian that is a singer is a Christian singer.

You dont see 1000's of innocent civilians killed everyday in other countries (like Iraq) with videos coming out with people chanting like zombies "Jesus is great, Jesus is great".

And I am pretty sure the IRA was denounced by major Christian leaders (Pope John Paul II), I don't see too much of an effort in the Islamic world to stop the endless random public bombings.

(Because those statements will send people on a google hunt, here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism). Can we get a count? 5? Now look at this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist_terrorism slightly larger)

[LaxRef]

Interesting yes, but not surprising. Mr. Bush's war in Iraq was a mistake. Not just because it was poorly planned and executed, but because it distracted us from our most important objective, which I would argue was to bring Bin Laden and his organization to some semblance of justice.

This reminds me of the story of the guy on his hands and knees in the street at midnight. Someone asks him what he's doing, and he says he lost a contact lens, so the other guy gets down to help him. After a while, he asks, "Where did you lose it?" The first guy says, "In that alley over there." "Well, why are we looking here?" "The light's better over here!"

In other words, it was easier to look like we were doing something by attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 than to actually do something that had to do with 9-11. So, billions of dollars and countless lives later, we're still no closer to finding that contact lens.

[Adam Gamradt]

I don't see too much of an effort in the Islamic world to stop the endless random public bombings.

Have you looked?

http://www.islamfortoday.com/murad04.htm

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

http://www.cair-net.org/

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/ ... am22.shtml

http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror ... rtion.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1544955.stm

http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror ... mzaid.html

http://www.livingislam.org/k/dcmm_e.html

Clearly, just as we did when we allowed ourselves to be taken to war in Iraq, you are forgetting the sympathy and goodwill of the entire world after September 11th. We squandered that goodwill in Iraq.

Also just as clear, you paint Islam with too broad of a brush.

Are you really saying that Muslims in general want suicide bombers in their world?

The vast majority of people are peaceful. Muslim, Christian, or gasp, even the Non-Religious.

There are also plenty of Muslim, Christian, and Non-Religious wackos. These people are in the minority, and unless we validate their behavior and elevate their status in society to a legitimate threat to Western Civilization, they will continue to be a fringe element.

I think by defining this as an ideological struggle, to some extent we validate our opponents position and legitimize their cause. Every time someone claims most Muslims are terrorists, Bin Laden and his particular brand of crazy scores a point.

[Buc_em_up]

You dont see 1000's of innocent civilians killed everyday in other countries (like Iraq) with videos coming out with people chanting like zombies "Jesus is great, Jesus is great".

If you have ever watched Joel Osteen or anyother evangelical organization's pro war efforts it looks something like a bunch of people chanting like zombies saying "Jesus is great for helping us kill Arabs" to me, especially when Bush has weekly telephone confrences with the Evangelical leadership.

[Buc_em_up]

"Jesus is great for helping us kill Arabs"

And that is just ironic since Jesus was and Arab...

[Daniel Morris]

There is a difference between being a certain religion and being a member of a terrorist organization, and being a certain religion and being a member of a terrorist organization that kills in the name of their god. That's like saying someone that's Christian that is a singer is a Christian singer.

You dont see 1000's of innocent civilians killed everyday in other countries (like Iraq) with videos coming out with people chanting like zombies "Jesus is great, Jesus is great".

And I am pretty sure the IRA was denounced by major Christian leaders (Pope John Paul II), I don't see too much of an effort in the Islamic world to stop the endless random public bombings.

(Because those statements will send people on a google hunt, here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism). Can we get a count? 5? Now look at this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist_terrorism slightly larger)

Two words: The Crusades.

Christians slaughtered and burned their way across Europe, all for their God and spreading his Word. Religion has a history of misguided interpretations. The only way this "War on Terror" is going to end is if the tolerant, peaceful Muslims take back their religion from extremists.

[Beta]

Are you really saying that Muslims in general want suicide bombers in their world?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. NO. I'm saying that they need to step up and clean their own house so we don't have to. If there were 1000's of murders everyday in America (like in Iraq) with people saying they're doing it for Big J...I guarantee there would be a hunt for those people.

I agree with all of you that say we shouldn't be in Iraq. But with that...I also think that the "peaceful" people over there need to step up and take care of their own problems.

Have you looked?

I shouldn't have to dig through Google to find some obscure webpage from 2004 denouncing muslim violence. It should be made perfectly clear by MAJOR religious leaders to stop it and they should do it CONSTANTLY so that everyone in the world knows.

The vast majority of people are peaceful. Muslim, Christian, or gasp, even the Non-Religious.

Yeah, but if they sit around and let it happen all around them in their own country...they're aren't part of the solution are they? (Which could be construed to why we're there...but I won't argue about the pros of us being there since I wish we weren't.)

If 1 out of 100 people were terrorists and the other 99 stood up to that person....it'd be a little better than 99 people sitting in their homes doing nothing (and by a little...I mean a lot).

If someone is getting mugged on the street and people all around do nothing...do those people that did nothing have right to complain when it happens the next week to them?

[Beta]

Two words: The Crusades.

Two words: Ancient History.

We're talking about now. Yes the Islamic world holds some resentment for the Crusades, but that was how many years ago? None of us were alive back then. Blind hatred for something that happened in the past with people that aren't alive today is what causes the crap that happens today. I'm pretty sure Germany is on everyone's good graces today aren't they?

Not that anyone denies the holocaust or anything like that.

[Campbell]

That's because the majority of people recognize reality - that the Iraq invasion and the subsequent occupation have created a fertile ground for growing "terrorists" - normal people that are so incensed by our actions and attitudes that they feel they are under attack and will willing take up opposition.

I would agree that our prolonged military presence in the Middle East has had an effect on the growth of terrorism. However, I am of the opinion that a lot of terrorists are more the product of the economic environment they are in. These people are poor and Iraqis and Afghanis are at the bottom right now. Grab these poor people, give them someone to blame, tell them things are going to be better, wrap it in the Koran and you have yourself a terrorist group. Basically, I don't think Joe Arab on the street would have such a disdain for the US, if not for being told so by religious leaders and wealthy extremists. I think if the economic situation was better in these countries there would be fewer reasons to blame America and thus fewer terrorists from these countries. Then you might see these people more widely treated as outlaws rather than martyrs.

[Jana]

Yes...but...so many of the terrorists have been highly educated professionals - college graduates, pilots, even doctors.

Regarding the IRA, remember that they got some of their money from deluded Americans who wanted to support Irish independence. Al Quaeda is the same way - 2 days ago they discovered 200 suicide vests at the Syrian border. Sunnis in Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc are supporting terrorism in Iraq. They don't want to see the west develop a client state, so they are willing to fund terrorists bombing local (muslim) citizens to try to get the Americans to leave.

Iraq needs to close the borders (Iran and Syria). I can't believe how few troops we have on the ground compared to what we need. Bush should have prepared us in 2002 for the need for more troops.

Maybe we should have a draft for national service, as most European countries, and Israel do. You can join one of the 5 services, or work for Vista or CityYear if you're a conscientous objector.

[Campbell]

Yes...but...so many of the terrorists have been highly educated professionals - college graduates, pilots, even doctors.

terrorists? or terrorist leaders? There is a difference between the guy that foots the bill and spouts the dogma and the guy that straps explosives to his chest and walks into a nightclub. The IRA did garner a lot of support, so did the Nazis, so does Hamas, and so does Al Qaeda. All of these groups have sprung out of regions that have suffered economically. Much like the KKK, which sprang out of the economically depressed post-Civil War south as heroes, eventually devolved into an unpopular hate group. I think the educated are in it more for power not for martyrdom and therefore only view the cause as a means for gaining more power. They may believe the crap they are spewing, but are they willing to sacrifice everything for it?

[Adam Gamradt]

Sorry Joe T, but if you make a statement, you need to back it up.

I'm not asking you to search google for obscure webpages. I'm asking you to back up your statement of fact with proof. I don't believe you've done that. Here are two more recent stories for you since it's clear you aren't interested in researching your own opinion.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... 1003/METRO

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=6089

The level of violence in Iraq is so high, it's not something the people can control without military intervention, and even that might not be enough. With our soldiers as targets, we're dammed if we stay. If we leave, these people will certainly fall under the leadership of violent factions.

There are plenty of areas in US cities where citizens don't speak up about crime out of fear of retaliation.

Read this story, and tell me the people who live in this area are responsible for cleaning up the streets. It's not such a simple thing to just tell people to stand up for themselves. It takes adequate law enforcement, not just community activism.

http://www.startribune.com/484/story/1294859.html

I'm simply not interested in blaming the victims. Now if you want to single out the segment of the population that relies on violence to gain power, then we have something to talk about.

A follow up question for you. Exactly which Major Muslim leader would you like to speak up?

[Beta]

Adam,

I never said that no one speaks up....and it's great that some people are. But there's no mass-communicai from the Muslim world denouncing the things going on. Some, yes. Lots? Not so much. When 9-11 hit, yes there were a lot of complaints about it from the Muslim world. Now that many MANY more people have been killed in Iraq than we lost in 9-11...where are these same people speaking up in the same loud manner? Are all of them helping out? Yes there are some nations helping out...but unless everyone gets on it...the same robber is snatching purses in broad daylight.

There have some small gatherings where leaders have denounced the violence...and maybe the media is to blame for not putting the spotlight on it. But I think it'd be a stretch to ever expect leaders like Ahmadinejad say anything but something Borat would say about jewish people whenever he has a mic in his face. Iran is a cornerstone of the Middle East and all he can talk about is "Zionism this, Zionism that, no more jews, the holocaust never happened...etc etc".

I too have a problem with people that use violence to gain power, esp ones that use religion to fuel it out of the underprivileged classes in society.

And yes that story about Palm Beach is tragic...and its terrible that things like that happen everyday. But you gotta stand up for yourself...and if you can't get a bigger someone else's help without shooting at them in the process. I am not blaming the victims of that crime...but if someone hears/sees evil and does nothing...how are they not as guilty as the people that committed the crime? And Im not saying they need to attack someone carrying an AK-47...but they can at least tip off the authorities every chance they get. And that does happen, sometimes.

I hate to be semi-cliche but good people doing nothing...doesn't solve anything...it only let's evil grow. And just because it happens in our country when it comes to crime...doesn't make it ok.

[Adam Gamradt]

Good post Joe. I think I understand a bit more about what you're saying.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Beta]

Good post Joe. I think I understand a bit more about what you're saying.

Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, it's difficult (at least for me) to remember that what one thinks isn't always translated into text. I often have to reread stuff and then be like "oh crap...that is the opposite of what I wanted to say".

Cooler heads always prevail.