Clarifications about BYU Lacrosse

[LaxRef]

It is a common coping tactic: if person A beat me or team B beat my team, it is because they cheated or they had unfair advantages.

My guess is that this is sometimes true, but that more often than not it is false.

[bbandlax]

You are honestly going to say this, COME ON! Every coach that does camps makes bank, I don't care what you say. This is how coaches make a big part of their income!

Woda I agree, that is where most college lacrosse coaches are going to make their money. They ride the backs of kids all the way to the bank. There are some excellent camps out there, but most are just money makers. You are going to have to believe me when I say that that philosophy is the antithesis of how BYU runs all of their camps. I have been with Coach Lamb since the first camp (when all 27 kids came to my basement apartment to watch a tape of the 1997 national championship). BYU owns and administrates all of the camps that go on there. Coach Lamb was the driving force to start up a lacrosse camp, but once it started he still had to play by the rules that all other camps at BYU go by. All of the BYU camps are set up for the campers to have a unique experience. There is a huge staff involved in making this happen. The pie, as it were, gets cut up into a lot of slices.

Come on, again, your team has access to great facilities, not to mention you have how many turf field to choose from? A full field indoors that you get use of. BYU is the monopoly of the MCLA when it comes to facilities. I never want to hear the comparison that CSU gets the same usage as BYU.

Woda I never said the CSU lacrosse team has access to great facilities. What I said was that the football team has access to great facilities. There are great facilities there, however the lax team cant use them. My point was that all the facilities that the BYU lacrosse team gets to use were not made for them. They are varsity facilities that the lax team gets to use when nobody else is (. The game field for example is the womens soccer field. The lacrosse team gets bumped off when ever they need to use it. Don't get me wrong, it is amazing to even be on the list to use those fields, but they are at the bottom of that list. The reason the lacrosse team has access to any of these is the result of many years of careful negotiation and proving that they will take care of anything they use. It started out taking the times that nobody else wanted (ie 10:00 pm) You make it sound like they just get to jump on any place they want. That is far from the truth. My first year playing (in '91) we were on an intramural field with a 10 degree slant. I know this is currently the case with many of the teams in the MCLA. Coach Lamb was a player/coach then and I doubt he ever dreamed that he would have the team playing on those holy grail fields we walked past every day. If CSU or any other MCLA team wants to get use of the best facilities an their school it can happen. It may take 15 years like it took Coach Lamb, but it can happen.

I have NOTHING but respect for what BYU has done and accomplished, but they are honestly LARGE steps ahead of the competition when it comes to university support.

Agreed, they are ahead of most of the competition as far as school support goes (Michigan and FSU are up there as well.) Just understand that support and those large steps have taken a long time to make. It is no coincidence that Michigan, FSU and BYU all have coaches with long tenure at their respective schools.

[Danny Hogan]

i think FSU actually gets a very 'ordinary' amount of money from the school.

the band turf field thing is somewhat of a wildcard, but is a 1 time thing.

from what i understand they are structured very much like the rest of the mortal clubs out there (working towards the levels of support schools like BYU and UM have earned).

[ME]

On the subject of Lambs pay, I am very close to a few of the players on BYU; all of which are close to Lamb, have worked the camps with him and know about his situation. I actually just was talking about his pay with one of the team members the other day. From what I heard was he gets paid in the range of 30-40K a year from the school/boosters... not to much. But where he really gets his pay from is the camps he does every summer the team members said he probably gets double his salary from the camps so in the end he isn't doing to bad. Probably around 80K-90K.

[byualum]

On the subject of Lambs pay, I am very close to a few of the players on BYU; all of which are close to Lamb, have worked the camps with him and know about his situation. I actually just was talking about his pay with one of the team members the other day. From what I heard was he gets paid in the range of 30-40K a year from the school/boosters... not to much. But where he really gets his pay from is the camps he does every summer the team members said he probably gets double his salary from the camps so in the end he isn't doing to bad. Probably around 80K-90K.

And from what I understand he spends most of it on his car...

[John Paul]

I think Scottie (bbandlax) is hitting this on the head. Organizationally our program is very similar to BYU's with the major exception that we have a much better camp financial deal here at UM then they do (ie. we have a much higher profit margin). The support we get is the result of years of very careful negotiations and concessions, and even then it's not as all-encompassing as people sometimes seem to believe. The common thread is long-term, full-time coaching. I have shared our methods and philosophy with many MCLA coaches, parents and student leaders when they've asked for advice, and I've asked for advice from peers at club and varsity programs (some of which share remarkably similar problems depending on where they sit in their athletic department pecking order).

Bottom line, and I think Scottie touched on this, growing a club program into a "virtual varsity" program is a long and often frustrating process that takes more political savvy (from coaches, parents, alumni and players) then anything else.

I am posting this because I'd like to see more MCLA teams receive the level of school support they want and need. Coach Lamb does not post on this board, but I know he is always willing to offer advice to anyone who asks. Same goes for me. So I guess I'm speaking for him here...you want to know the real story about what they get and how they get it? Call him and ask. You want to know how they got to where they are? Same answer.

[ME]

On the subject of Lambs pay, I am very close to a few of the players on BYU; all of which are close to Lamb, have worked the camps with him and know about his situation. I actually just was talking about his pay with one of the team members the other day. From what I heard was he gets paid in the range of 30-40K a year from the school/boosters... not to much. But where he really gets his pay from is the camps he does every summer the team members said he probably gets double his salary from the camps so in the end he isn't doing to bad. Probably around 80K-90K.

And from what I understand he spends most of it on his car...

Guess so

[Adam G]

On the subject of Lambs pay, I am very close to a few of the players on BYU; all of which are close to Lamb, have worked the camps with him and know about his situation. I actually just was talking about his pay with one of the team members the other day. From what I heard was he gets paid in the range of 30-40K a year from the school/boosters... not to much. But where he really gets his pay from is the camps he does every summer the team members said he probably gets double his salary from the camps so in the end he isn't doing to bad. Probably around 80K-90K.

Who cares? How is this anyone's business but his own? I'm not sure I'd be real pleased to find my pay rate, whatever it may be, discussed on a message board. But hey, I heard Mike Storts gets paid $400 a summer to coach youth lacrosse in Madison.

[bbandlax]

Who cares? How is this anyone's business but his own? I'm not sure I'd be real pleased to find my pay rate, whatever it may be, discussed on a message board. But hey, I heard Mike Storts gets paid $400 a summer to coach youth lacrosse in Madison.

Your right. Although I did talk to Coach Lamb about my post before I sent it I should not have brought up specifics. The players don't know all they think they know and hopefully specifics numbers wont be brought up in this thread again. I apologize for initiating that part. If anyone is interested Coach Lamb is happy to share those kinds of things if you contact him.

The most important part of this is exactly what JP brought up. There are ways for the coaches in our league to make lacrosse a full time profession. With school, player, parent support there is certainly opportunities for a decent base. Add in camp opportunities, youth leagues, etc. there are ways to make it work. Coach Lamb and JP have taken different routes to get to where they are, but both (as JP mentioned earlier) are willing to offer up advise if contacted.

[bbandlax]

The facilities use has come slowly, and through a lot of effort both on the part of Coach Lamb and others in the BYU family. I do know that Coach Lamb has built his team on a varsity model. He wants them to be the best team that they can be, and that means working hard to get them the best facilities, best trainers, etc. that he can. Contrary to popular belief, none of that has been given to them on a silver platter.

I just want to touch on this real quick. Although the last 11 years of development at BYU has been spearheaded by Coach Lamb, I cant begin to tell you the number of people who have supported him and the program. All of them have done it on a volunteer basis (except for athletic trainers who are paid.) At Dallas this year there were probably 10-12 "coaches" on the side line. Only three were actual assistants (volunteer), the rest of us were hangers-on, hasbeens, or neverwases. The point is we all still want to be involved with the program. Everybody from our stat crew (really just one lady) to our website crew (just one guy), to our media relations crew (again one guy), to the catering crew (one parent) are all volunteer. Coach Lamb has developed a network across the country that allows the team to travel and stay in homes of families who love the team. The parents often organize meals for the team which can save a lot of money as well. There is also a long list of "hall of famers" who started the program back in the mid 70's who kept it going until Coach Lamb got ahold of it. Many of them still closely follow the team and lend support when able (although we as alumni still need to step up our game.)

[Ballin']

so i had heard that if a certain player wants to attend BYU, but does not have the grades to get in that coach Lamb can "pull some strings" and get that person into the school. is there any truth to that?

[dtrain34]

I believe the "scholarship" that everyone seems to not be realizing (and I find it odd former students at BYU didn't mention this), is the cost of tuition for an LDS who has served his 2 year mission.

Come on gentleman, this isn't that big of stretch to come to that conclusion...

Mormon families due have to pay a large amount to send their child on their mission, as well as 10% of their gross yearly income to the church, every year you are a member.

In Flip's defense, my "peoples" have a couple of similar institutions. One is BC (that largest Catholic University in the free world), and the other is Notre Dame. Another reason that BYU should move to D1 is a simple as...they can. The school would support it and a women's team (taking care of the whole Title IX issue)

Like most of my dealings with Flip....there is always merit to his opinions when he addresses issues about our game.....but for a man with his own journal, in my opinioin, he doesn't express himself maybe as well as he could sometimes.

[mholtz]

so i had heard that if a certain player wants to attend BYU, but does not have the grades to get in that coach Lamb can "pull some strings" and get that person into the school. is there any truth to that?

Most major universities will accept highly respected advocates for applicants. One of the first places I went to when I was hired as head coach at MSU was to the admissions department. I called them and asked for a meeting. I sat down with an assistant director of admissions, and explained my situation. She was more than happy to spend an hour with me explaining how the process works, and more importantly what they are looking for in applications including pointers on things for people to add or subtract from their application and admissions essays. When there is a specific border line recruit that is applying, I am more than happy to sit down with them and discuss everything with him. This improves their application and thus their chances. That along with my letter of recommendation can sometimes swing admissions. Am I saying that I can stretch a 2.0 GPA and 18 ACT score into an admission at MSU? No. Can I swing someone a few 10ths of a grade point, and maybe one point on the ACT? Possibly, but simply because the administration is looking for more than just grades. They are looking for well rounded students who will be successful in college and in the future.

Is this a bad thing? I'd argue no, and here's why. Every kid that has had me pull for them is more than aware of it, and they know they owe me and the university a debt. In every case these students have done extremely well at MSU, typically better than they did in high school. Is that a mistake by admissions? Absolutely not. Only time will tell for me if these players go on to be successful in their careers, but my money is on these hard working student athletes.

So I guess what I'm saying is... what's your point?

Varsity athletes have the advantage of academic assistance in the form of tutors, and people watching over them. That's how they get people in.

The admissions department at BYU probably knows the record of Coach Lamb and his student athletes, and knows that he won't put his name on a person he doesn't believe in. They know that he's put his name on the line, and that he'll back it up. They know his players respect him, and will work to earn their spot at a great university.

Admissions is about accepting the best college students, not the best high school students.

[byualum]

I believe the "scholarship" that everyone seems to not be realizing (and I find it odd former students at BYU didn't mention this), is the cost of tuition for an LDS who has served his 2 year mission.

Tuition cost is not tied to whether or not you served a mission.

[ineedmorecowbell]

yeah, i heard that lamb got teddy and elliott to go to byu instead of utah or westminny because he offered them both brand new beemers. they were a little upset though, because lamb could only scrape up enough money out of his $300k salary to give them both 2008 hyundai sonatas. they weren't out yet, but lamb knew some people who knew some people who robbed some people.