Teams Going Varsity

[John Paul]

It's a little more complex than some of you are making it out to be. A varsity program is a very different thing than what we have now at Michigan. We are nowhere near self-sufficient. We charge very high dues, and we fundraise well into six figures every year. We do not get the level of support we'd like from the athletic department or the university for our athletes and our coaching staff is not full time salaried. We are striving toward that goal, and I hope it will happen. Our alumni seem fairly unified in their support of that goal as well. There is interest from our athletic department, and we have potential donors ready to help it happen, but we still have a lot of work to do to make it a reality.

A scholarship supported varsity program at a major D1 school benefits a slightly different set of student-athletes. A club team would probably remain (although potentially not MCLA). The varsity program would recruit a higher level of player with slightly different motivations. A D1 program competes on a bigger stage and has the opportunity to have a much bigger impact on the lacrosse community, both locally and nationally.

Many times I have heard the argument that well-run MCLA teams can dissuade an athletic department from considering a varsity program. I think it's the other way around, and my proof is here at Michigan. Our program has opened the eyes of our administration to the point that they are actively considering their options. Our commitment level has involved alumni and parents and fans to the point that they are now discussing multi-million dollar gifts to help the program evolve (something that would be much less likely at a regular club program where parents and alumni are less invested). THAT'S why varsity growth will eventually happen at more D1 schools. When athletic directors, who are strapped for cash, start to realize that lacrosse has more potential than any other sport to bring in donors who could impact the entire athletic department or even the university, they start looking at ways to make it happen. Some of our MCLA programs are just scratching the surface of that potential, and more athletic departments are starting to notice. College lacrosse is still a long way off from significant men's D1 growth, but it's coming.

[KnoxVegas]

ESPN will never broadcast a club event.

Maybe not in primetime but if they show the Rochambeau world championships, they can broadcast our club events. Possibly not a "Game of the Week" but easily the national championships. Of course, that might mean moving our date but who knows. Or we can do a time buy and get it on. Between their multitude of platforms, specifically ESPNU, it could happen very easily. There just needs to be incentive (read: advertising dollars & new subscriber homes) for ESPN to do so.

If they can make the X Games into what it is today, then certainly lacrosse is a sport that ESPN will be getting more and more behind in the next couple years. Also, not everything you watch on ESPN is solely their production. Other production companies own the righst to an event and hen purchase time on the network to broadcast their product. Sure the graphics look is ESPN and the talent might be wearing ESPN shirts while hold mics with ESPN mic flags on them but that is as for as the commitment goes from Bristol.

Then again, what do I know? I just do this for a living.

[John Westfall]

John makes some great points. You will see programs like Colorado State, BYU, Michigan, Arizona go varsity some time in the future because of their size and the size of their support, maybe sooner then we all think. There is no time table, but as popularity of the sport grows and there is just not enough varsity slots in the country at the present time for all the kids now coming out of High school playing the sport. Expansion will eventually happen in the NCAA starting with the Division 1 Schools. It will also open the way for Womens Lacrosse to grow on the collegiate level with satisfying the Title 9 requirements at Division 1 Schools.

All the best,

[buffalowill]

added 1 team to the D II list...bump

[Sonny]

added 1 team to the D II list...bump

Still don't understand how you can put Detroit-Mercy on that list. They haven't announced anything definitive yet.

[buffalowill]

I will have a definitive answer for you in the coming week....either yes or no!

[OAKS]

I think the Blue Hose of Presbyterian College are in for some trouble. I assume they will be independent, can't see what conference would take them since the Big South obviously does not have lacrosse. Not gonna be easy to convince teams to come to Clinton, SC just to steamroll to a 20-2 victory.

I agree. They will be in the Big South conference for other sports, but VMI is the only other member with lacrosse (Radford dropped their program a few years ago and Birmingham-Southern, interestingly enough, is dropping from D1 to D3 and will be D3 when they add lacrosse).

I think for now, Presbyterian might need to go the Limestone route and recruit some good Canadians.

Here is their advertised recruiting class for next year: 2 guys. Laxpower has 3 listed.
http://www.presby.edu/bluehose/Men's_La ... ign430.htm

I could be wrong, but I don't see them breaking into the mid-level or higher echelons of D1 for a very long time

[buffalowill]

here ya go Sonny...I emailed the AD and here is her response:

Thanks for your e-mail. We are planning to announce the start of both men's and women's Division I varsity lacrosse programs for 2008-2009 season. As soon as our conference affiliation is finalized, we will officially make the announcement. We are hoping that the announcement will come as soon as the end of this month. I will hire a part-time coach this July to begin the recruitment process for the following year and then the position will become full-time in July of 2008. If you have any recommendations for a coach or players, we welcome them.


Thank you again for your input and interest.

Keri

[Campbell]

It's a little more complex than some of you are making it out to be. A varsity program is a very different thing than what we have now at Michigan. We are nowhere near self-sufficient. We charge very high dues, and we fundraise well into six figures every year. We do not get the level of support we'd like from the athletic department or the university for our athletes and our coaching staff is not full time salaried. We are striving toward that goal, and I hope it will happen. Our alumni seem fairly unified in their support of that goal as well. There is interest from our athletic department, and we have potential donors ready to help it happen, but we still have a lot of work to do to make it a reality.

I guess that is what I meant by self-sufficient, meaning your team provides for itself rather than the university finding the money for you. You guys have a solid program, go to nationals every year, represent your school very well, and the players all pay for it on top of paying tuition. That is a good bargain for the univerisity, and what I was driving at in my post.

[Jana]

Perhaps by "self sufficient" he was referring to endowment dollars. Broadly speaking, a charity or foundation will raise money, invest in the stock market with the hope of earning 10% return, and spending 4% on the charity each year.

This creates a sustainable (self sufficient?) support system for a program.

As an example, if ACME College Alumni built a $1,000,000 foundation, they would hope to generate $100,000 each year in returns, spend $40,000 on the program, and reinvest the other $60,000 into the foundation (to handle inflation and also account for the possibility of a "down" revenue year).

So that $40k would be available to hire a coach, but keep in mind you would need to pay out health care and payroll taxes. So maybe a coaching salary of $30,000 with health care benefits.

[CP18]

Our commitment level has involved alumni and parents and fans to the point that they are now discussing multi-million dollar gifts to help the program evolve (something that would be much less likely at a regular club program where parents and alumni are less invested). THAT'S why varsity growth will eventually happen at more D1 schools. When athletic directors, who are strapped for cash, start to realize that lacrosse has more potential than any other sport to bring in donors who could impact the entire athletic department or even the university, they start looking at ways to make it happen.

Speaking from a perspective that is on the inside of Varsity, Division I Athletics, John Paul is right on, but I would like to add to his statement. The only way, large, Division I universities add varsity lax is if their is someone with deep enough pockets that puts enough heat on the AD, president, and board of regents to add varsity lax. The pressure to to be great in men's basketball and then football (yes hoops over football, due to the revenue a conference/school gets from the NCAA Hoops tourney) is overwhelming for an Athletic Department, and more and more money each year is being demanded by coaches, boosters, etc to pump into those programs. Oh, and you can't forget about your other 14 varsity sports.

Michigan wants a varsity program, find me some major seven figures donations that will create an endowment to fund varsity lax, scholarships, travel, expenses, etc. Once a couple of the 'big' schools out west do this, ie Michigan, Texas/Texas A&M, Cal Berkley, BYU, other schools will take notice and see that they should try to 'find' funding to establish a program.

Long and short, find some major donors at some major schools to establish lacrosse, and then the fire will spread with the increased growth. Unfortunately, major Athletic Departments have more on their plates than contemplating adding men's lacrosse. Now, if someone walks into the AD's office that has major gift giving potential, all bets are off, and the University listens.

That is how it works from my point of view. Thoughts?

[LaxRef]

Our commitment level has involved alumni and parents and fans to the point that they are now discussing multi-million dollar gifts to help the program evolve (something that would be much less likely at a regular club program where parents and alumni are less invested). THAT'S why varsity growth will eventually happen at more D1 schools. When athletic directors, who are strapped for cash, start to realize that lacrosse has more potential than any other sport to bring in donors who could impact the entire athletic department or even the university, they start looking at ways to make it happen.

Speaking from a perspective that is on the inside of Varsity, Division I Athletics, John Paul is right on, but I would like to add to his statement. The only way, large, Division I universities add varsity lax is if their is someone with deep enough pockets that puts enough heat on the AD, president, and board of regents to add varsity lax. The pressure to to be great in men's basketball and then football (yes hoops over football, due to the revenue a conference/school gets from the NCAA Hoops tourney) is overwhelming for an Athletic Department, and more and more money each year is being demanded by coaches, boosters, etc to pump into those programs. Oh, and you can't forget about your other 14 varsity sports.

Michigan wants a varsity program, find me some major seven figures donations that will create an endowment to fund varsity lax, scholarships, travel, expenses, etc. Once a couple of the 'big' schools out west do this, ie Michigan, Texas/Texas A&M, Cal Berkley, BYU, other schools will take notice and see that they should try to 'find' funding to establish a program.

Long and short, find some major donors at some major schools to establish lacrosse, and then the fire will spread with the increased growth. Unfortunately, major Athletic Departments have more on their plates than contemplating adding men's lacrosse. Now, if someone walks into the AD's office that has major gift giving potential, all bets are off, and the University listens.

That is how it works from my point of view. Thoughts?

You need to be careful when you write. I believe that it is possible that someone could read your post and draw the conclusion that you believe college athletics is driven not by the noble spirit of amateurism but instead by money. I am sure that this is not what you intended, and it would be unfortunate if you alienated someone in this way.

[bbandlax]

Michigan wants a varsity program, find me some major seven figures donations that will create an endowment to fund varsity lax, scholarships, travel, expenses, etc. Once a couple of the 'big' schools out west do this, ie Michigan, Texas/Texas A&M, Cal Berkley, BYU, other schools will take notice and see that they should try to 'find' funding to establish a program.

Don't forget that most D1 schools are not Title IX compliant so anything done on the mens side would at least need to be equaled on the womens side. Meaning in most cases you are not raising 10 million to start a mens program, you are raising 20 million to start up a mens and a womens program. I Don't know the specific Title IX situation at Michigan or any other school (other than BYU), but most DI schools are still trying to get Title IX compliant. Which precludes expanding mens athletics. And if they are Title IX compliant then we are back to the situation where a mens and womens sport would need to be added together, or the existing womens programs expanded to match the expansion on the mens side.

[John Paul]

Michigan is Title IX compliant. It was one of the first major D1 schools to get there. In fact, despite a student body that is 51% female, Michigan added men's soccer six years ago and has, to date, avoided cutting any men's sports. We also added women's crew (the big Title IX add that many schools go for because of the numbers involved), women's soccer and women's water polo in the past 12 years to balance everything - and like most schools, Michigan practices roster management to keep the ratios in compliance.

That said, if a school is compliant and they wish to add men's lacrosse, they probably have to do more than just add another women's sport. A typical D1 men's lacrosse team has a roster size of around 45. Not many women's sports can offset that on their own. If the school has a high percentage of female students, then you're looking at having to add even more than 45 women's spots to stay compliant...or cut spots from another men's sport (or cut a team altogether).

If you read between the lines in the quotes from our associate AD in the Lacrosse Magazine article, you can see that they are discussing adding women's and men's lacrosse together and cutting a current men's sport to make it work. HOWEVER, in order to cut the rumor mill before it gets too far along - these are only discussions at this point. There are no plans, as of yet, to add D1 lacrosse at Michigan.

[Tim Gray]

Salem St of the PCLL B just announced that they're going DIII.
The article is in the PCLL forum