Scottsdale CC lacrosse coach

[lilaxstats]

Scottsdale CC has placed an add on the Arizona lacrosse board. Any one have any info on this such as what league will they be in, NJCAA? Whom will they play? Are there other West Coast CC teams who have lacrosse?

[Homebrew]

A likely league for them to participate in is the Western Collegiate Lacrosse League (WCLL). However, the WCLL Bylaws state the following regarding membership qualification:

"Article II, Section 2. Qualifications for Membership. All members must be fouryear collegiate institutions and members of U.S. Lacrosse that want to participate in this corporation’s lacrosse league (the “League”). All members must comply with the Team Responsibilities List approved by the Full Members from time to time."

I had an email conversation with Sonny over a year ago about this issue and he informed me that the USL MDIA would allow memberhip of a qualified community college lacrosse program. Changes to the WCLL Bylaws maybe warranted for examination and amendment if the Scottsdale CC program were to consider joining the WCLL.

Additionally, the WCLL Bylaws do not contain language that would prohibit the membership of a varsity lacrosse program. Is the Scottsdale CC program a varsity or have a similarly designated status with the college?

[SDSULAX]

I don't think the WCLL is going to modify their bylaws to accomodate a community college team. We have been approached before by two year community colleges, we are not set up to service that market. I don't believe the MDIA is set up to service that market either.

[lilaxstats]

When you say accomodate and not being set up to service that market, what do you mean?

What is involved to accomodate a community college to play a 4 year school in lacrosse? It would appear that the clear disadvantage would be against the 2 year school with the exception of money, to to which the school would be getting funds for travel and membership into the league, assuming that they would make the USLIA their league.

Is their any other leagues that they may play in other then the NJCAA for which most if not all the teams are on the east coast who play lacrosse?

[sdsuspect4L]

I think its just a matter of time. Remember lacrosse is still growing, but in the future I can see CCs having teams. Places like Santa Barbara, Butte College in Chico, Mesa, Grossmont, DVC. There are plenty of ex high school players there now.

[Danny Hogan]

one of the problems in accomodating a commnity college team would be that with club teams in general;

talent, organization, commitment and sheer numbers can all leave in 4 year cycles with the graduation of the leadership.

See Auburn, Cal, Stanford (not pointing to organization, commitment or numbers of any of those teams as i have no insight on anything other than the talent aspect).

The turnover would be much more severe at a 2-year school. What if the WCLL went through the trouble of amending their bylaws and then 2 years later the program is a mess? I would like to see them prove themselves on their own for a few years and show that they are ready first.

all that being said, the formula to a consistent program begins with a coach, which seems to be where they are starting, hats off to anyone who is taking the initiative to start a team.

[laxfan25]

I hope we're not seeing some of the arrogance displayed towards the USLIA teams that has been reflected in the LaxPower threads that Sonny has pointed out. Granted, there would be significant challenges posed to a 2-year institution, but if they want to and can show the commitment, why not welcome them to the fold? You can always set up a probationary level for new squads (both 2 and 4-yr), but there is no legitimate reason in my mind for keeping them out. After all, four-year school teams have thrived in many cases and folded in a few - why not give a JC or CC a chance?

[SDSULAX]

If there is a large demand, why don't they set up their own league? Create their own bylaws, negotiate fees with referees, set up their league administration, recruit and develop referees, etc., you don't seem to get the point, why would the WCLL want to change their bylaws to accommodate two year colleges when the bylaws already state that the WCLL serves four year institutions? The WCLL is not out beating the bushes for membership and there is no incentive to grow farther than the size we can effectively administer.

[laxfan25]

I wasn't saying that these teams had to join the WCLL and upset your little group, since the same concept could be applied in other areas of the country as well. I hope SDSU gets to schedule someone like Herkimer JC some time so that you can see that a two-year school can play the game well too. The idea I was getting at is that if a two-year school can pull together a team why can't ehy compete in the USLIA as well.

[SDSULAX]

I am sure if the two year colleges got together, US lacrosse would be more than willing to entertain putting together another association to administer them, but you have to present to them a complete organization, you cannot expect them to develop it for you. The major drawback to that right now is that by the time you would get that type of organization set up, the motivated players would probably be gone from the school. But then again, everyone had to start somewhere, maybe Scottsdale will be the beginning.

[laxfan25]

Based on how things were handled to get the NCAA Div 1 season started this year, I'm not sure USL would want to take on anything else! We got our new rulebooks the day before my first game. This was the NCAA's fault, but organization overall has been a challenge. I do give kudos to the USLIA for the organization they have put together in not too many years - very impressive, and the result of hard work and effort from more than a few dedicated people.
My earlier post was just reflecting on an attitude I see at many levels of lacrosse, HS here in Michigan, nationally between D1/D3 and MDIA schools, where there is a LOT of condescension (sp?), and a total lack of respect for the skills and teams at the "lower" levels. It really pisses me off, since as you said, they all have to start somewhere. It sometimes seems like the attitude is that they don't like outsiders getting into their little clubs, reflective of the elitist nature of some of the longer-standing organizations. That's why it's always refreshing when they can get their comeuppance. Lacrosse IS growing, sometimes spastically, but it sure ain't just an East Coast sport anymore! Keep up the good work, and keep an open mind!

[lilaxstats]

Do we not let any other programs such as Comm. College's to grow and participate in this game, out West? Does that mean that Scottsdale has to wait until there are at least 6 teams before they decide to field a team, in their own conference? I thought it was about building this game not keeping it all to yourself, in your own cliques.

Where do they start? It would not have to be permanent. Just until the rest of the country at the CC level decided to field teams, as well. These CC's could be feeder programs for the USLIA teams in their respective areas, in this case ASU and UA.

Do you not think that other USLIA coaches and teams in the rest of the country would not welcome this type of feeder program. Ask them I bet they would.

[onpoint]

Even if they are not officially involved with the WCLL or MDIA, they can still probably get games against MDIA teams that will allow coaches to see them and "recruit" the players. No reason they can't schedule games vs. MDIA opponents.

[SDSULAX]

lilastats stated'"I thought it was about building this game not keeping it all to yourself, in your own cliques. "

That might be your mandate, but it is not ours. We are not a "clique," we are a corporation established to serve our membership. Developing feeder programs, while it is a good idea, is not something we currently have the time and ability to perform. I realize this might be hard to swallow for some lacrosse enthusiasts, but you must realize we are all volunteers and have other reponsibilities other than lacrosse. Sometimes you just have to understand you can only do so much with what time you have.

[lilaxstats]

SDULAX,
Understanding where your coming from, I was using the sentiments of laxfan25 instead of "little group" I used cliques for a lack of better words.

Quote "Why don't they setup there own league?" NJCAA do have their own league, however, it presides in lacrosse, for the most part, in the eastern part of the US. I'm sure any Junior college program would be more then willing to pay the fees associated with your membership. Kind of hard for teams to pop up all at once to start their own league, I'm sure the USLIA expereinced this as well.

Quote "The major drawback to that right now is that by the time you would get that type of organization set up, the motivated players would probably be gone from the school."

If you look at the likes of Nassau CC 22 national championships, Herkimer CC, Essex CC etc they have done pretty well for themselves and have sustained strong programs and traditions that can be rivaled by few. I dont think these players/porgrams were unmotivated.

By adding another program or two for scheduled games, is it really going to place an undue burden on your league? I appreciate your time and energy but saying you dont have the time to spur growth in a sport that needs such, out west is sad.

What if the NCAA said they do not want to allow some of your "clubs" who have aspirations of joining the NCAA tournament the same thing?