DUKE players granted additional year of eligibility

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Postby byualum on Thu May 31, 2007 9:22 am

StrykerFSU wrote:I'm not holding my breath to see a football season canceled because some of the players drank while underage or urinated in public. The NCAA realized that this situation was handled incorrectly and worked to rectify it.

But why was it up to the NCAA to rectify the situation. Duke University made the decision to cancel the season. The University overreacted, both in cancelling the season, and especially in "firing" Pressler.

Duke filing the petition with the NCAA seems like the kid that didn't do his homework, but gets his parents to call the school and excuse him.

Duke made their bed, let them sleep in it.



And Rabil was the best player in the nation this year...sorry, wrong thread.
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Postby StrykerFSU on Thu May 31, 2007 9:30 am

Reaction to the Duke eligibility ruling from defenseman Tony McDevitt (IL)

May 30, 2007
Mike Keegan

IL: So, have you decided what you’re going to do?

TM: For me, it’s about enhancing my educational experience and my resume. To have the opportunity to get a Masters or to attend grad school would be an unbelievable opportunity. And a close second to that would be to play lacrosse again. So, right now, personally I have a lot going on and a job lined up, so I can’t say anything definitely. I have to talk to my employer which is an unbelievable opportunity that you don’t pass up.

IL: The Major League Lacrosse draft is tomorrow. What is the next move for you guys as far as that is concerned?

TM: The move there is wait. We have to make the decision about school and we can’t be putting our names in as registered for the draft because we’d lose our amateur status.


http://www.insidelacrosse.com/page.cfm?pagerid=2&news=fdetail&storyid=166034

No one has really touched on how the seniors' big boy jobs will react if they decide to stay in school. Seeing as how the MLL is not exactly full-time employment, whether a company will hold you position for a year is probably a more relevant concern.
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Postby KnoxVegas on Thu May 31, 2007 10:01 am

Daniel Morris wrote:I wonder, WWGPD?


Jebediah!

StrykerFSU wrote:And the NCAA is doing what it can to make amends for what was a supremely unfair decision by the university that unjustly penalized a group of student-athletes.


I agree 100% with this. It is as the the NCAA giving a "make good." As for where the money is coming from, Duke does have a huge endowment. But I suspect that most will not opt for the extra year, unless they are going to grad school or behind on their studies.

The lesson learned by all this is don't be stupid. If a stripper(s) shows up without muscle, don't let her in.
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Postby byualum on Thu May 31, 2007 10:25 am

KnoxVegas wrote:I agree 100% with this. It is as the the NCAA giving a "make good." As for where the money is coming from, Duke does have a huge endowment. But I suspect that most will not opt for the extra year, unless they are going to grad school or behind on their studies.


So a bunch of kids stay and enter grad school...can they now be given a graduate student stipend, effectively opening up the schollies for the incoming freshmen? For the next three years are they carrying five recruiting classes vs. four at all the other schools?

I still don't see how this is the "right" thing to do. Let's just name Duke the '08 National Champions, give Dino another Tewaaraton and move on.
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Postby Sonny on Thu May 31, 2007 10:40 am

Read this elsewhere and this poster makes some excellent points....

Several poster have pointed out that a 5th year for an entire class for the next three years is huge -- more mature, more developed, stronger, faster, older, wiser players, etc. I agree completely. Huge advantage when applied to an entire class, and not to one or two injured athletes given a waiver.

In addition, this waiver for the current sophomore, junior and senior classes also gives Duke 5 recruiting classes for the next three years vs. just four recruiting clases for every other school. Let's face it, while all players can transfer, most won't transfer. They will design their course work to graduate in 5 years or attend graduate school at Duke. The NCAA gave Duke a huge competitive advantage by granting Duke 5 full recuititng classes from which to field its team for the next three years.

This decision was not thought through. This decision reflects the same rush to judgment mentality that caused Duke to screw up in the first place. These young men sufferred and suffered greatly because of what Duke did and what its professors did, and they deserve compensation from Duke, but not from the NCAA and not in the form of a competitive advantage.
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Postby byualum on Thu May 31, 2007 10:44 am

Sonny wrote:Read this elsewhere and this poster makes some excellent points....

Several poster have pointed out that a 5th year for an entire class for the next three years is huge -- more mature, more developed, stronger, faster, older, wiser players, etc. I agree completely. Huge advantage when applied to an entire class, and not to one or two injured athletes given a waiver.

In addition, this waiver for the current sophomore, junior and senior classes also gives Duke 5 recruiting classes for the next three years vs. just four recruiting clases for every other school. Let's face it, while all players can transfer, most won't transfer. They will design their course work to graduate in 5 years or attend graduate school at Duke. The NCAA gave Duke a huge competitive advantage by granting Duke 5 full recuititng classes from which to field its team for the next three years.

This decision was not thought through. This decision reflects the same rush to judgment mentality that caused Duke to screw up in the first place. These young men sufferred and suffered greatly because of what Duke did and what its professors did, and they deserve compensation from Duke, but not from the NCAA and not in the form of a competitive advantage.

Great find, Sonny...this guy is dead on.
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Postby KnoxVegas on Thu May 31, 2007 10:48 am

byualum wrote:So a bunch of kids stay and enter grad school...can they now be given a graduate student stipend, effectively opening up the schollies for the incoming freshmen? For the next three years are they carrying five recruiting classes vs. four at all the other schools?


The post that Sonny quoted answers your questions. Duke is loaded now, in theory. An attempt by the NCAA to aid the Duke underclassmen, has in the opinion of many, given them an unfair advantage.

I personally think that some bench players might transfer, to programs closer to home. Given that there will be so much talent on campus, competition for roster spots will be greater. A.J. please correct me if I am wrong on this but just because the underclassmen were granted another year of eligiblility does not necessarily mean that Duke has to give them a partial or full scholarship.
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Postby StrykerFSU on Thu May 31, 2007 11:23 am

Those are some valid concerns but it appears that the other members of the ACC don't see this decision as giving Duke a competitive advantage since the university presidents voted unanimously to support the decision.

Some more comments:

The approved request granted an extra year of eligibility to 33 players. There are 41 players on the 2007 roster. So the NCAA approved an extra year for every player on this year’s team except the seven freshmen and Ed Douglas, who is already a fifth-year senior. Douglas, if he chooses, can apply for an additional exception to allow him to return. And the players may choose whether to use this year of eligibility at Duke or to transfer to another program.

Several of the seniors have jobs lined up or are expected to be top draft picks in Major League Lacrosse. Logistical concerns such as scholarship money and financial aid packages will have to be worked out over the summer for those choosing to return. While the decision most immediately impacts the seniors, the younger players can stay an extra season too, meaning junior Zack Greer and the juniors could return for 2009 if they choose.

Several seniors are in good position to be drafted in this year’s Major League Lacrosse draft, which is on May 31.

Prior to the decision from the NCAA becoming final, MLL Director of Public Relations Shaun May said no concrete decisions had been reached about how to handle this year's draft. But, he did say the league is considering allowing teams to draft the rights to this year's Duke seniors and hanging on to them for next season. The Chicago Machine holds the No. 1 pick in Thursday's draft and would most likely choose Danowski, an attackman and a finalist for this year’s Tewaaraton Trophy who led the nation in points with 44 goals and 52 assists this season...

...In a press release from the NCAA released this afternoon, NCAA director of student-athlete reinstatement and membership services said: "These individuals were involved in an unusual circumstance that we believe warrants providing them the opportunity to complete their four years of competition.”


http://www.insidelacrosse.com/page.cfm?pagerid=2&news=fdetail&storyid=166007
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Postby Zamboni_Driver on Thu May 31, 2007 12:12 pm

jessexy wrote:I'm talking like the underage drinking issues



Its been a while, so how do we know there was underage drinking?

Before someone calls me stupid, I know what was going on at the party. I just can't remember any specific evidence that was released that showed specific individuals who were underage were drinking. Did the underclassmen confess to drinking? Or was there alcohol at the same location as underclassmen, and it was insinuated that they all were drinking?
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Postby StrykerFSU on Thu May 31, 2007 12:48 pm

Some tidbits from the Duke University Ad Hoc Review Committee's Report:

1. The members of the Duke Lacrosse team have been academically and athletically responsible students. In general, faculty who have had lacrosse players in their classes have not experienced disciplinary problems with the players. Over the last five years, however, many lacrosse players increasingly have been socially irresponsible consumers of alcohol. Their extensive record of repetitive misconduct should have alarmed administrators responsible for student discipline.

b. Social behavior

Paradoxically, in contrast to their exemplary academic and athletic performance, a large number of the members of the team have been socially irresponsible when under the influence of alcohol. They have repeatedly violated the law against underage drinking. They have drunk alcohol excessively. They have disturbed their neighbors with loud music and noise, both on-campus and off-campus. They have publicly urinated both on-campus and off. They have shown disrespect for property. Both the number of team members implicated in this behavior and the number of alcohol-related incidents involving them have been excessive compared to other Duke athletic teams. Nevertheless, their conduct has not been different in character than the conduct of the typical Duke student who abuses alcohol. Their reported conduct has not involved fighting, sexual assault or harassment, or racist behavior. 15 Moreover, even the people who have complained about their alcohol-related misconduct often add that the students are respectful and appear genuinely remorseful when they are not drinking...

The most common conduct for which disciplinary citations were issued involved drinking games in which several players living in the same residential hall participated. In addition, many of the incidents of misconduct occurred during periods when players did not have academic or athletic obligations, such as the period at the start of the school year after upperclass housing opened but before classes began, on weekends, during school breaks, and in May, after the academic year had ended when the players lived in unsupervised residential housing to complete the team's season.


http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/mmedia/features/lacrosse_incident/lacrossereport.html

The gist is that some younger members of the Duke lacrosse team tended to act inappropriately after drinking...I'm shocked!!! 18 and 19 year old kids playing drinking games and acting foolishly? What's next, are you going to tell me that that teenagers are bad drivers??? I'm sorry but I just don't see how any of these supposed "infractions" warrant any kind of punishment on the scale of canceling an entire season. From Duke's own alcohol policy:

Underage Possession/Consumption
Students under 21 years of age are not permitted to purchase, possess, or consume alcoholic beverages. Being under the influence of any amount of alcohol while underage is considered a violation of this provision.

For individuals as well as groups, prohibited behavior includes:


* Underage Possession/Consumption
* Unsafe/Irresponsible Behavior
* Violation of Community Expectations.

Sanctions for violations of any of these prohibited behaviors may include, but are not limited to, one or more of the following: educational initiatives, restitution to the community, fines, revocation of housing and/or on-campus driving privileges, referral to a substance abuse specialist, treatment through a professional agency such as the Duke Addictions Program, formal warning, disciplinary probation, suspension, or expulsion from the university. Parents of students under the age of 21 will be notified of alcohol-related disciplinary violations when a student’s health or safety has been/is at risk.

http://judicial.studentaffairs.duke.edu/policies/policy_list/alcohol.html

Maybe the NCAA is bailing out the moronic administration of Duke or maybe they are trying to do right by these kids, regardless of the reason I think they are doing the right thing.
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Postby Danny Hogan on Thu May 31, 2007 2:02 pm

RE: 5 recruiting classes in 4 years

I do seem to recall that Duke lost most of its recruited C/O 10' (this year's freshman class) after all the stuff went down last year.

Is it more like 4 classes and whoever of the 07' freshman that didn't jump ship?
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Postby ZagGrad on Thu May 31, 2007 2:41 pm

Since many of you feel that what the NCAA did was unjust or wrong, what should they have done?

After everything these kids went through, I don't see how this can be considered a reward or a prize.

Also, how can the NCAA committee used to make the decision be considered naive about the repercussions of what they are doing? To say it was "not thought out" is ignorant. As mentioned before, the option was put on the table for all the ACC members to discuss and approve or deny.

I like the decision.
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Postby byualum on Thu May 31, 2007 2:44 pm

ZagGrad wrote:Since many of you feel that what the NCAA did was unjust or wrong, what should they have done?


Nothing...the NCAA didn't impose any sanctions on Duke or the lacrosse program last season. Why is it their duty to try and "make it right"?

Max Quinzani and Parker McKee are pretty nice players for a recruiting class that you're not going to count.
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Postby Danny Hogan on Thu May 31, 2007 3:01 pm

i'm with you on the NCAA decision, i just remember hearing that Duke had the consensus #1 class coming in this year and most of them defected.

a couple of them ended up contributing for Georgetown, no?

still not 5 full classes, i also doubt all the seniors from this year will use the extra year.
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Postby byualum on Thu May 31, 2007 3:09 pm

"I like the Duke kids and feel the pain they went through, but you have to understand I'm coming from a competitive situation," Maryland coach Dave Cottle said. "It's difficult to comprehend having to play against five classes of players rather than four."

Cottle suggested that Duke, which aborted the 2006 season after eight games, and the NCAA had overreacted.

Interesting read in the Baltimore Sun...good quotes from Cottle, Petro and Toomey. The ACC university presidents may have voted to support the NCAA, but I'm pretty sure they didn't consult with their lacrosse coaches.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/lacrosse/bal-sp.duke31may31,0,6054963.story?coll=bal-college-lacrosse

Danny, you're dead on about what they lost. Dowd and Kocis at G'Town were headed to Duke as well as Ken Clausen who ended up at UVA. The original Class of 2010 at Duke was outstanding. Ultimately, I think Clausen will be the best of the group they lost. He'll be the next great long-pole not to win the Tewaaraton.
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