N. Colorado's final consolation game is kaput

[destroyer10]

You are trying to characterize a team welching on their duty to meet the obligations that they signed up for as something that was noble. Hate to break it to you, but noble is the last thing that it was.

All I have ever tried to advocate was that UC-I's decision to leave early was one founded in rationality.

Undeniably, IMHO, anyone faced with the same choice as Irvine would choose the same thing, if they knew what was good for them.

You know what we should do? We should punish UC-I for leaving Frisco to take finals.

[Sonny]

Get a grip destroyer10. No one is advocating that we should punish UCI for taking their finals.

They should be punished for failing to live up to their WCLL/MCLA obligations. If they had prepared properly & provided advanced notice to their school and professors (like the other 27 tournament teams in Dallas), this wouldn't have been an issue.

The fact is that they didn't prepare adequately which seems to be a reoccuring theme at the Div. B level as it relates to the national tournament. (See Salem State, Calvin, and now UCI).

As I understand it, UCI bought plane tickets at the very beginning that had them returning to California on Wednesday evening. (After winning the WCLL Div. B Title, the UCI coach evidently had to make a deal with the players to attend the tournament at all.

They had no intention of completing their full tournament schedule of three games. Which begs the question, what would have happened if they would have won their first two games and advanced to the semis on Friday? Maybe we could scrounge up the tournament staff to fill in at Pizza Hut Park for the Div. B National Semifinals?

You are trying to characterize a team welching on their duty to meet the obligations that they signed up for as something that was noble. Hate to break it to you, but noble is the last thing that it was.

Agree. CatLAX once again nails it out of the park.

No one forced UCI to join the WCLL/MCLA. Their actions are not noble, despite your spin. In fact, their actions are a slap in the face to the WCLL, MCLA, and the Tournament Organizers.

[Pedro12]

I've seen a lot of talk about lack of commitment on here and i really don't think that is the main problem. I believe it to be more due to lack of preparation. These team should have started preparing for nationals at the start of the school year, or at least at the start of the spring semester. This is especially true in calvin's case given their history. They put themselves in a no win situation that could have been avoided. Maybe this should be addressed at the fall conference meetings since the conference as a whole is penalized(though it probably already is). Give a rough outline from the more experience schools of the milestone dates that they use to be sure that their student athletes will be cleared to travel. I'm not trying to take any of the blame away from any of the team b/c it is entirely there own fault. I'm just saying that the better the team, the better the conference.

Also, is there any monetary fine for any of these actions?

[MountaineerLax]

I think their level of commitment is unquestionable.

All commitment is created equal. If you are going to play in the MCLA you commit to it. Just as you did with your education.

However: BOTH ARE VALUABLE FOR A YOUNG-MAN, ONE THAT IS CARVING HIS IDEALS, STRENGTHS, DEDICATION, DRIVE, AND ACHIEVING SUCCESS. IN ESSENSE, HE IS DEVELOPING HIS FUTURE.

This cannot be argued.

Now you understand the obligations and the terms/conditions of membership in the MCLA - and along with that the rules of national competition. It this interferes with your obligations at the school - then something needs to be addressed. If you cannot fulfill your MCLA obligations for what reason should you be in the MCLA?

If they wanted to be in the tournament they should have played better during the regular season.

Yes teams would LOVE to be in the tournament. Sport is such for a reason - not everyone can make it - and things change from year to year - but when you make it, YOU MAKE SURE YOU MAKE IT! (If you don't catch the joke of that what I mean is if your field performance is enough to earn a spot at the tourny, you show up and you play your games out).

A team's commitment to the league should not be measured by how many championships they have missed.

There are alot of quality programs that would deal with the same struggles. Especially the smaller programs, experiencing their 1st tournament. But the tournament is supposed to help the program, and the school on a national level.

Players should not even have the option of 'wanting to leave early'.

We are talking about a team which received little support from their school in the worst way. Players whose professors, for whatever reason, were unwilling to compromise to make this the experience it should have been, for them as well as everyone else. Maybe its just a matter of luck. One year the teachers are willing, the next year they aren't.

I find it hard to believe that a school would be completely unsupportive.

Here's a little bit of wisdom and it works... don't take "NO" for an answer.

There's always someone higher up the chain, and there's a chance they'll support the experiential learning, not to mention publicity, that is this national event. I've been there - teacher smechers.... academic affairs and the VP and Pres. of the Board of Directors are there for a reason. They pay the bills they pull the strings on the teachers. I promise you this is true. A teacher can say what they will - but through appeals they are easily trumped.

The key is to communicate early and often with key officials - informing them of the potential of playing late in the season and effecting class obligations.... and a plan should be laid out in the event that cross-over occurs.

Those things don't happen.... and why? We could point fingers - but I don't think it's necessary.

[destroyer10]

Well said MountaineerLax. Great words for student-athletes aspiring to get it done on and off the field.

[everythingwentnumb]

Well said MountaineerLax. Great words for student-athletes aspiring to get it done on and off the field.

Ay, there's the rub. The argument is that UCI was put in a situation such that they either get it done ON the field or OFF, not BOTH, if I understand correctly. Professors refused to excuse students, rewrite tests, etc. Thus, those players must choose between playing a consolation game or taking finals. As much as I love lacrosse and the MCLA, and as much as it sucks for N. Colorado, I feel that a student's absolute first priority must be academics. Lacrosse must take a back seat to our futures. How many of us will be playing lacrosse professionally? Is a consolation game so important that they should be expected to miss finals (possibly failing classes) and are scorned when they chose to take their finals?

Personally, I don't go to school specifically to play lacrosse, nor do I play lacrosse to go to school. I didn't make my decision to go to the top-notch university I attend because they have a quality lacrosse team. It just so happens they they do.

Look at it this way: if the students of UCI gave up finals and played their consolation game, and some students failed out because of it, then how many of them would be put on academic probation and not be allowed by the WCLL to participate in next year's season?

Does anyone wonder what UCI would have done had they been given slack by their university? Would it have made a difference?

(On another note, I realize that this argument would be different had UCI made their Final Four. I don't know what they would have done, nor should it matter since it never happened.)

[Blake]

The fact is that they didn't prepare adequately which seems to be a reoccuring theme at the Div. B level as it relates to the national tournament. (See Salem State, Calvin, and now UCI)

I recognize the steps the MCLA has taken to include the division B teams in the national tournament, and I'm grateful for it. Even us at ACI who had little to no shot of participating over the last few years were at least excited by the prospect of it.

However, I feel like some of these generalizations are demeaning all of those B teams who DO fulfill their commitments. 11 other teams went to Frisco and represented their institutions well. Talking like we should eliminate the B tournament is talking like we should punish those other 11 teams.

Did division A have any growing pains when the national tournament started, or was it perfect from the get-go?

[MountaineerLax]

Lacrosse must take a back seat to our futures.

First .... you're disrespecting the sport if you think it's not beneficial for a young man and his future by being in the MCLA and playing such a game of time-less tradition.

Second .... if you're on the team and you can't swing the time off, THEN DON'T GO!! You're telling me the entire team could not get time off?

It's funny...

...this conversation is because they skipped out on 1 game... 1 consolation game.

Think about how 1 more day, 1 more game, would've really effected their futures....

....I have a feeling a conversation at the beginning of the year, or even a phone call that Thursday morning would have made all the difference.

What's that called... oh yea... EFFORT!

[everythingwentnumb]

Lacrosse must take a back seat to our futures.

First .... you're disrespecting the sport if you think it's not beneficial for a young man and his future by being in the MCLA and playing such a game of time-less tradition.

Believe you me, I know how valuable lacrosse is. In the off-season, I coach a youth instructional camp, and I get to watch kids mature and grow every day. You misunderstand me: lacrosse is definitely beneficial to our lives, but it's not going to put food on the table.

Second .... if you're on the team and you can't swing the time off, THEN DON'T GO!! You're telling me the entire team could not get time off?

It's funny...

...this conversation is because they skipped out on 1 game... 1 consolation game.

Think about how 1 more day, 1 more game, would've really effected their futures....

If a guy is already in danger of academic probation, say, and misses the one final for the one consolation game on the one day, he could possibly a) not be allowed to play on the team the following season due to academic probation or b) not be allowed to attend the university anymore. This has happened to a couple of my teammates. People have had to miss road trips or join the team later because teachers refused to excuse them from tests due to academic probation.

Of course in this situation things should have been taken care of, peoples' academics should have been good enough to avoid this situation. But if they aren't, then what?

....I have a feeling a conversation at the beginning of the year, or even a phone call that Thursday morning would have made all the difference.

What's that called... oh yea... EFFORT!

You're absolutely right. But hindsight is always 20/20, and I'm sure if UCI did the right things at the right time, they would have been fine playing this game. But their choices led to this consequence, and berating UCI over and over again for not making the right phone calls does not change the fact that they didn't make the right phone calls and missed the game.

To be honest, I'm not sure what this thread is accomplishing. UCI missed their game. N. Colorado got shafted. Done and done, so talking about how "UCI sh0uld h4v3 g0tt3n th3ir cr4p t0getherzzzz!!!111```oneoneeleven" isn't going to solve anything, but will only continue to insinuate emotions over an event that has now come and gone.

[MountaineerLax]

lacrosse is definitely beneficial to our lives, but it's not going to put food on the table.

Neither will neglecting one's responsibilities.

This does not apply to just UCI nor this thread or conversation.

There are several organizations that have scared the tournament, Division B, themselves, and peers by neglecting their responsibilities. So much so that conversations are being had of the value of Division B.

Please stop enabling these actions.

[Campbell]

You're absolutely right. But hindsight is always 20/20, and I'm sure if UCI did the right things at the right time, they would have been fine playing this game. But their choices led to this consequence, and berating UCI over and over again for not making the right phone calls does not change the fact that they didn't make the right phone calls and missed the game.

This is the heart of the matter right here. IF they did the right things at the right time things would be ok, but they didn't and they weren't. People are mad because so many teams put forth so much effort to be a part of this league and tournament and a team that earns a spot in it just throws it away. Look at a team like Southwestern that does everything right and then watches their conference teams crumble due to money and eligibility, ultimately denying them an AQ and even a conference championship game. They were lucky to get a spot in the nationals which I think they deserved.

I don't think the league is in the position of being all inclusive anymore to the extent that they will just accept any team and whatever crap they put on the field. Those days are long gone. If teams want to compete at a high level and be rewarded for their hard work with a national schedule, national tournament, and national governing body they have to get their ducks in a row. I don't think the B tournament should be taken away, but teams like Calvin and UCI need to be sanctioned by the league for the good of the other teams in the B Division.

[wapiti]

Very well said..........