Div A Subdivisions

[A.J. Stevens]

Since it is time to start looking at the 08' season, lets talk about teams that want to move up to the A div along with subdivisions. There has been some discussion about not allowing A teams to play down after this year. The teams that are currently playing down are Nebraska, Memphis & Arkansas with Mississippi hoping to join. The travel would be difficult if we add 4 more teams to our current system. An idea that could make things easier would be three subdivisions with the top two teams making the playoffs. Teams would be allowed to play other GRLC team but the games would not count in the standings. This would allow for more out-of-conference play. This is just an idea that I am putting out there to spark discussion. What does everyone think?

South
Arkansas
Lindenwood
Memphis
Mississippi

North
Illinois
Illinois State
Iowa
Nebraska

West
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Missouri State

[cjwilhelmi]

AJ,

I would assume with 6 teams that the top 2 would get byes?

-Corbin

EDIT:: Potentially there could be three teams with the exact same number of maximum goal differential allowed. Any ideas on how the tie breakers would work in this proposed scenario? I'm just trying to think of everything before I come on board.

[A.J. Stevens]

EDIT:: Potentially there could be three teams with the exact same number of maximum goal differential allowed. Any ideas on how the tie breakers would work in this proposed scenario? I'm just trying to think of everything before I come on board.

That is the #1 problem I see with this option. Any ideas?

Maybe require one crossover to allow for a common opponent?

[bste_lax]

Play everyone in your subdivision then play one team in each of the other subdivision (random pick at the conference meeting) so you play 5 conference games that count towards playoffs?

[cjwilhelmi]

Potential for a three way tie still exist with that.

The more I think about it the more that I like the proposed idea from Coach Stevens. As stated, the biggest issue is figuring out the tie breakers.

Would this solve the potential three way tie breaker better
Round 1 - Average margin of victory (up to 8 goals as are currently in bylaws)
Round 2 - Average goals against
Round 3 - Coin Flip

I would suggest raising the margin of victory up to ten goals. I don't think it will be beneficial to raise it any higher since teams would be tempted to run the score up which does not benefit anyone. Also on the average goals against there is no ceiling.

[NELAX21]

Since it is time to start looking at the 08' season, lets talk about teams that want to move up to the A div along with subdivisions. There has been some discussion about not allowing A teams to play down after this year. The teams that are currently playing down are Nebraska, Memphis & Arkansas with Mississippi hoping to join. The travel would be difficult if we add 4 more teams to our current system. An idea that could make things easier would be three subdivisions with the top two teams making the playoffs. Teams would be allowed to play other GRLC team but the games would not count in the standings. This would allow for more out-of-conference play. This is just an idea that I am putting out there to spark discussion. What does everyone think?

South
Arkansas
Lindenwood
Memphis
Mississippi

North
Illinois
Illinois State
Iowa
Nebraska

West
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Missouri State

Seems like the north sub-division would be kind of weird to have us in it. Iowa being the closest is still about 6 hours away I am pretty sure. It seems kind of pointless to have kansas and kansas state within a couple hours and not have them in the same sub-division If you switched Lindenwood into the north nebraska to the west and missouri state to the south would make the most sense travel and location wise. That would then make it

South:
Arkansas
Memphis
Mississippi
Missouri State

North:
Illinois
Illinois State
Iowa
Lindenwood

West:
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Nebraska

I think for travel that would be more efficient, i do not know how far apart the south teams actually are but correct me if i am wrong they are closer to each other than to any of the other teams? Also, what happens if Mississippi does not get into the conference, i know they had a good spring but what happens if they don't come to us or they don't get in? A north south split doesn't really work it seems like

[NELAX21]

Also, there is a post from Iowa State seeing when our league meeting was, i dont know if they are trying to get in to the GRLC or not, but if they try to join and are accepted what do you do then?

[A.J. Stevens]

Seems like the north sub-division would be kind of weird to have us in it. Iowa being the closest is still about 6 hours away I am pretty sure. It seems kind of pointless to have kansas and kansas state within a couple hours and not have them in the same sub-division If you switched Lindenwood into the north nebraska to the west and missouri state to the south would make the most sense travel and location wise. That would then make it

South:
Arkansas
Memphis
Mississippi
Missouri State

North:
Illinois
Illinois State
Iowa
Lindenwood

West:
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Nebraska

Why would you put 3 of the top five teams in the North subdivision? Travel should not be an issue for teams competing in the A division. Correct? The way I layed it out spreads the traditionally strong teams among all 3 subdivisions. Each team would be required to play three games in each subdivision. You would still be free to play other teams in the GRLC.

[A.J. Stevens]

Also, there is a post from Iowa State seeing when our league meeting was, i dont know if they are trying to get in to the GRLC or not, but if they try to join and are accepted what do you do then?

That post is from Illinois State.

[Arklax]

South:
Arkansas
Memphis
Mississippi
Missouri State

North:
Illinois
Illinois State
Iowa
Lindenwood

West:
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Nebraska

It may be much better for travel, but it's not entirely fair to put 3 of the top 5 (and the top 2) teams in the same subdivision, at least for now. Hopefully, in the future, as the teams who are either new to A or did not make the playoffs improve, we can readjust the divisions to fit geographic concerns.

I would suggest, with this setup, that teams play at least one team from each subdivision, preferably 2. I know that if we traveled to Lawrence/Manhattan/Lincoln, we would want to play 2 of those teams, not just one. What if we were assigned KSU in one division and Illinois in the other? We would then be making two separate long trips for only one game at each destination, which isn't always financially efficient. IF there was only 1 "crossover" (sorry, it's the only term I'm familiar with), would teams then be allowed to schedule more than just the two mandatory crossover games? If that was allowed, then teams might schedule some of the lower quality teams just to boost their conference record. I can't say that I wouldn't try to schedule an extra sub .500 team for that chance at a win that could put my team into the playoffs.

2 crossover games from each division would make seven conference games. All A teams this past year played 7 conference games...was it that much of a burden? I don't really know, that's why I ask. More games would reduce the chance of a tie.

I'm assuming WashU, if they are re-admitted, will be a B team at best?
And how probable is the passing of a "no A teams playing in B" rule?

[Arklax]

Why would you put 3 of the top five teams in the North subdivision?

Beat me to it.

[Jolly Roger]

West:
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Nebraska

Why would you put 3 of the top five teams in the North subdivision?

Look at the subdivision he put his team into. Who do you think might make the playoffs from this group while IllSt, Ill, and LU beat each other up in the regular season.

[cjwilhelmi]

Jared, the point of playing only the teams in your subdivision is to promote OOC competition. I would be highly against any idea of having to play a team in a different subconference when we could play a OOC game.

[bste_lax]

At the same time, you could play a second team if you traveled to Kansas/K-State/Nebraska, but only one would count towards your "conference record".

[beckner11]

Let's just assume for a second that the ruling to make all A schools play in A doesn't pass. Are Memphis, Nebraska, and Mississippi (pending) still planning on moving up? I know Arkansas has already said they are making the move. If these teams have the ablility to stay down and do then we may have to scratch this idea all together.

Putting that aside...I think Coach Stevens has pretty much proposed the best senerio right now. No offense to Mississippi but Missouri State would NOT want to travel all the way down there so we've in favor of being in the West division! I agree that you can't put 3 of the top 5 teams in one subdivision but who's to say that Lindenwood won't have any problems with the trip to MS? (Corbin, this is your cue to chime in!!)