Div B Breaking News: Calvin is out... Southwestern is in!

[Steno]

Totally agree with Sohotrightnow. STUDENT-athlete.

[Jpm1987]

Agreed, student always comes before athlete.

[OAKS]

Most of the time, if you are good at managing your time and / or planning ahead, you can have your cake AND eat it too as far as school work and club sports goes. You can put it on your resume too.

[Band]

Two things are most interesting about this thread:

1. Why do we call it an "invitation" if you aren't allowed to respectfully decline?

2. Sonny taking what amounts to pot shots at Calvin in the form of snide and sarcastic replies in the first couple pages of this thread. Nice form.

[wheelz33]

As a former lax player that missed winning the AQ to nationals two years in a row by one game, and was also just a few poll positions from an at-large bid those same years, this whole thing baffles me. I am still depressed that I will never have the opportunity to play for the national championship, and knowing my top goal in my playing career will never be realized.

All this garbage about student athlete and money are just excuses for a team in Calvin's position. What Calvin coulda and shoulda done has already been covered pretty well, so I won't bother recapping. But we've all seen or heard of kids that have made it work. Calvin could have made it work if they wanted to. But thats the thing, they didn't want it bad enough. So I'm glad they're aren't making the trip. They aren't deserving of the honor. Which I guess that has been their point all along, they didn't deserve to go. It's just too bad other teams will be punished for their selfish decision.

[Buc_em_up]

As a former lax player that missed winning the AQ to nationals two years in a row by one game, and was also just a few poll positions from an at-large bid those same years, this whole thing baffles me.

seems to me like you would be happy if a team or two ahead of you in the at-large race bowed out, then you could have gone...

also why IS it called an invitation if you cant decline it? interesting question that didnt get answered.

[John Paul]

So are you saying that a team that declines is basing their decision on the fact that they might have seen the word invitation? The league is crystal clear to the teams that receive bids that they are expected to attend. Our national board meetings, which involve representatives from every conference who then pass along what they hear and do to all member teams, have included discussions on this topic, and it has been made clear by the board at those meetings as well what is expected, especially after the cancellation we had last year.

This is a national championship tournament. It is not an invitational. Those are two very different things. NIRSA used to have an invitational "college club lacrosse national championship tournament." It died a couple of years after our tournament began because of a lack of interest. The NCLL runs a national championship tournament where teams sometimes decline to play and forfeit their games. We do not run those kinds of events. Our event is a true national championship. The work that goes into planning and running it is overwhelming. I don't think most who read these boards can truly imagine how much is committed and by how many.

I'm glad that this has generated so much discussion because it's a very important issue. Some have posted that lacrosse is not the most important thing in life and that academics must come first. I couldn't agree more, and neither could the other members of the board, some of whom are professional educators and all of whom are educators as coaches or former coaches. Some have pointed out how tough it is to make this all work out financially and timing-wise. Again, I absolutely agree. Coaches, staff and volunteers have regular jobs and families that must be their first priority, as we all know. All of those issues can be handled effectively with some planning and foresight as 54 teams have proven over the 11 years of the tournament.

Should the MCLA national championships be the absolute highlight of everyone's lives? I certainly hope not. However, all MCLA teams, when their request to join the league is accepted, should understand that their acceptance comes with responsibilities, and those responsibilities are not optional or negotiable. There are other outlets for play for teams that don't think the MCLA, and all it requires, is for them. As evidenced by the existence of the NCLL, the GLLL, the NECLL and the many independent club teams out there, those outlets are being put to good use. The MCLA is a serious step up from those options. We have very high expectations of our teams, and that's what separates the MCLA, and the experience it provides for its participants, from the rest.

[Beta]

So without me having to read pages and pages of posts, can someone just clarify that even if Calvin had won their conference championship...they still wouldn't have gone?

Because I thought I read 8907 posts back, something along the lines that they lost interest after falling short in the playoffs. I hope that was a joke, or misinformed info..

[Pedro12]

Question, what would the league's response have been if calvin informed other pollsters prior to poll submission that their team would be non competitive due to attrition? would this have changed the perception? i think if just one or maybe two people had dropped them completely off the poll they wouldn't have been invited.

[laxdad03]

This whole situation is just the sort of thing that makes some people say (both within and without), "Aw, it's only club ball, why bother, who cares?" I'm afraid we may lose some of the good ones to this self-defeating feedback loop. We've fought long and hard for the bit of positive recognition we seem to be gaining, let's not foster the loss of any hard-won legitimacy by feeding the fire with apparent lack of seriousness and commitment; it really is, to great extent, a case of "It is what you make of it." Thanks, JP, for all you do.

[Sonny]

This whole situation is just the sort of thing that makes some people say (both within and without), "Aw, it's only club ball, why bother, who cares?" I'm afraid we may lose some of the good ones to this self-defeating feedback loop. We've fought long and hard for the bit of positive recognition we seem to be gaining, let's not foster the loss of any hard-won legitimacy by feeding the fire with apparent lack of seriousness and commitment; it really is, to great extent, a case of "It is what you make of it." Thanks, JP, for all you do.

Very well said laxdad03.

[JW]

calvin is not a cheap school to begin with... but i understand.

so basically it comes down to one team not wanting to go, based on the desire of their players...

Man what an opportunity wasted by Calvin.

[Texas Logger]

Most of the time, if you are good at managing your time and / or planning ahead, you can have your cake AND eat it too as far as school work and club sports goes. You can put it on your resume too.

Would "having cake and eating it too" fall under professional skills?

so basically it comes down to one team not wanting to go, based on the desire of their players...

Man what an opportunity wasted by Calvin.

This is exactly how I see it. There's no point to commiting to a team that wants to be successful if this is the outcome. Personally, I haven't even thought about trying to catch on with the A&M team because I know that I can't give my full commitment. Maybe it's too much to expect of others.

Anyway, goodluck Southwestern.

[UofMLaxGoalie11]

Question, what would the league's response have been if calvin informed other pollsters prior to poll submission that their team would be non competitive due to attrition? would this have changed the perception? i think if just one or maybe two people had dropped them completely off the poll they wouldn't have been invited.

But then you would hear nothing but how Calvin got robbed in the polls. We have enough people putting up arguments against the polls as is. We dont need people toying with it behind the scenes.

Also, great job JP. You really put things in perspective, rather than the arguments of people going to regret it years into the future. If its written in the bylaws, every team should be able to plan for a Cinderella season.

[PigPen]

does the NCLL have situations like this and how do they treat it-serious question.