Texas HS lax

[Sonny]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

The coaching issue is a non-issue really. All of the current coaches (non teachers) can remain working with their programs. Maybe the coach on paper shifts to someone else's name. (That is for the program and the school in question to decide. Not you or I.)

Not necessarily true. In Texas, all coaches must be school employees. The current club coaches would have to get teaching certificates and actually teach classes, if they could even get a job with the school district. So many of the coaching positions are based on football coaching needs at the school and teaching positions needed within the district. It could be very difficult for a current club team coach to make the move to continue working with the same team.

The UIL doesn't allow any community coaches (non school employees) to work with H.S. teams? Wow. I don't know the rules over there, but here in GA they allow non school employees to become a community coach if they take a few courses (First Aid, Sportsmanship/ethics course) and get certified by the state. It also is a liability issue. I believe by become a certified community coach, they get some insurance coverage.

[untlax23]

Not necessarily true. In Texas, all coaches must be school employees. The current club coaches would have to get teaching certificates and actually teach classes, if they could even get a job with the school district. .

I think you should be specific in this statement. PUBLIC schools require this. This is where the Private schools in Texas have had its edge. They are not limited in their employment.

And yes this has been brought up as an issue in the past with the UIL in Texas. The talk of getting HS lax UIL sanctioned has been going on since I played HS club in the early 90's. This was always the number one stumbling block.

I've been of the opinion that it would take an organized unified movement to get lax in UIL. Getting the smaller, more rural schools in the state involved is a must. There are a number of factors that inhibit growth in those areas, major ones are exposer to the sport, and equipment (lets face it start-up cost for a new team can be massive considering the cost of cages, and 10 sets of sticks and pads).

I often wonder if HS organizations communicate region to region, then from HS to college. We have a convention for USLIA every year, is there a Texas Lacrosse organization that can bring all the coaches and organizations together in the state? Improving any group involves good communication on all levels, and addressing issues involving contrary philosophies.

Side note: In the past College club teams have needed to bring many new players along from the beginning. Concentrating on learning the game. With more College Club players with several years HS experience, the emphasis on coaching should change from learning and reinforcing fundementals to more complex elements of the game on the field. I think that is why A&M and UT have had the advantage over the years. Not neccessarily they had more talent, just more people who had sound fundementals and coaches who can teach the finer aspects of playing on the field. Without the benefit of knowing all the coaches in the LSA, I wonder how many are able to Coach the game versus teach fundementals to the team as a whole?

I know with Karl in the early years he spent almost all of practices trying to reinforce basic field concepts. That was really frustrating for the veteran guys who wanted to learn new things. As we gained more players with sound fundementals, we used practice for more specific items (like third options on EMO, or specialized clears). Of course as the level of Vets goes up and down, it changes how practices are ran.

Sorry to open up two subjects on one post.

[CATLAX MAN]

Same goes out here in California. Non-school employees can be coaches. There is also a certification procedure for coaches to follow.

[shrekjr]

Not necessarily true. In Texas, all coaches must be school employees. The current club coaches would have to get teaching certificates and actually teach classes, if they could even get a job with the school district. .

I think you should be specific in this statement. PUBLIC schools require this. This is where the Private schools in Texas have had its edge. They are not limited in their employment.

That is correct, the rules are different in the private schools. But the vast majority of the teams in Texas (about 80%) are club teams with players from public schools. Forcing those teams to move to UIL and have a freshman team football coach forced to coach lacrosse in the spring is not good for anyone. I think the best case scenario would be to do it like soccer did and make it two separate groups...the school team for those wanting to play for their school (and the fastest way to get the sport to grow), and the club teams for those wanting a higher level of play. Most soccer players now play both school and club at different times of the year. I don't see why lacrosse couldn't do that too. But the school coaching is definitely going to be the biggest hurdle. There have been recent attempts from the smaller rural schools to allow part-time or non-employee coaches, but the teacher's groups keeping shooting it down trying to protect their own interests.

[Tarzan]

Louisiana has the employment rule and here is how most schools go around it:
The "Head coach" works for the school (football, soccer, basketball coach...). His job is to learn the game and drive the bus.

The “Assistant coach” is someone outside and he/she does the coaching.

[Sonny]

Forcing those teams to move to UIL and have a freshman team football coach forced to coach lacrosse in the spring is not good for anyone.

Shrekjr,

That is a short-sighted opinion as previously addressed in this thread. There is nothing preventing the current "club" coach from assisting the freshman team football coach (or other person) who doesn't know anything about lacrosse. It isn't that big of a hurdle. Really.

[Brent Burns]

I recently checked out the Texas High School Lacrosse League (THSLL) website which can be found at:

http://www.thsll.org

It has three areas: North, Central, and South divisions of THSLL. There are a lot of excellent contacts in those areas.

I also checked USLacrosse to find out the contact persons running two chapters in Texas:

North Texas (North Texas and Oklahoma): Tom Fitzsimmons

South Central Texas: Andy Garrigan

I know there is one chapter in Louisiana, but I don't know who the contact person is, yet I know Tarzan knows that person.

[shrekjr]

Shrekjr,

That is a short-sighted opinion as previously addressed in this thread. There is nothing preventing the current "club" coach from assisting the freshman team football coach (or other person) who doesn't know anything about lacrosse. It isn't that big of a hurdle. Really.

You don't have to convince me, you have to convince the state to allow assitance from non-employees, or you have to convince the employee school coach and volunteer club coach to meet after hours to talk. Remember that most of the club coaches have other jobs and cannot be at a practice during school hours when the school coach is going to have the practice. And the school coach isn't going to want to wait until 6:00-7:00 to start practice when the club coach can be there, not that the state is going to allow that anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lacrosse being a school sport and believe that is the fastest way for the sport to grow. But I've seen the headaches faced by soccer and wrestling here in Texas over the last 20 years and I just know the facts of the uphill battle that is faced when trying to start a new sport in the schools, especially one as expensive as lacrosse. Given the demographics of the state, the current number of teams playing (about 50 club teams?) vs. the over 1200 total schools in Texas, and the cost of beginning the program at each school, lacrosse faces a serious struggle of trying to become a school sport anytime soon. The numbers just are not there yet.

Having said that, it does NOT prevent each team from going to their school district and trying to work out whatever they can. There are teams in Texas now who have free access to stadiums with turf, there are teams that are getting PE credit, there are teams practicing in the football team's indoor practice facilities. Then there are the majority of the teams who cannot use school facilities at all, who have to pay hundreds of dollars to rent a stadium for a night, who can't even get the team picture in the yearbook because they are not official school clubs recognized by the school board.

I have fought this school sports battle before, and will be happy to do it again when the time is right. Now is not the time.

[Texas Logger]

Just an interesting note on football-lacrosse crossover. At my uni, we have had three guys in the past couple years come from the football team to try their hand at lax. Two of em have quit football and the other is still a freshman. One of the two that quit is one of the best conditioned guys on our club squad, and the other is the worst conditioned, except for me. And as far as college guys with prior experience, I am the prime example of a guy who started in the fifth grade and never improved that much. Granted I was only part time varsity for one year at SMH so my coaching was rather limited, and SAA? Oh man, they just wanted us to hit the SMH and Central players.

Those guys who led SMH to the state titles also beat SMH when they were in middle school. We had trouble getting SMH varsity to play our team of seventh and eighth graders because we were too rough. Hey Im just trying to respond to the first post.

Another point on Private schools. Some don't have football or have worthless football teams, which aided the fast start. That said, I don't see schools like Central Catholic or TMI going anywhere.

Anyway, go Barons! WB Cavender? Chantz Butler? Oh lord help us. Here's hoping for a return to the glory days.

Having witnessed the struggle for UIL sanctioned wrestling first hand, I can only say good luck. I really can't see myself as a school teacher, but I am down to help the sport in my home state.

[laxfan25]

public school clubs need to find a way to get the sport moved into the realm of UIL. That my friends will really change things.

Pardon my ignorance - what is UIL and why will it change things?
I'm in Michigan and we just went under the MHSAA umbrella, which isn't a great thing necessarily.

(I just answered my own question, reading further into this thread).

Someone asked about other states, and I have been very involved in the move to sanctioned status her in Michigan, helping to train the new refs that MHSAA has recruited from other sports. It has certainly been a point of contention as to whether this move is a good thing. Long term, most likely. Short term -LOTS of disruption. Lacrosse used to be run by the Michigan Scholastic Lacrosse Association, a group organized to run lacrosse in the state. Now under MHSAA, we are lumped in with all other sacntioned sports and have to follow their regulations. These cover when a team can start practice (7 days from now), when a coach can work with players in a group larger than 3 (forbidden until practice starts), how many games a day/week a team can play (no weekend tournies with multiple games a day), how far a team can travel (no more than 300 miles), all players have to be from the district (before a kid from a neighboring town could join a team if his didn't offer lacrosse) etc. etc. There are about 65 teams playing boys lacrosse now, which seemed to be the magic number for MHSAA to take interest. Besides setting the rules for the year, MHSAA runs the state tournament now. Before, there were three classes of teams, based on skill level. There was also a developmental level for new squads and they had their own separate state tournament, which was fun for the kids. As you would expect, the Class A + B teams really diss on the new squads ("It's not really a true state tournament, you can't call yourself state champs, yadda, yadda"). Now there are two classes, based on school size, although a team can opt up (but not down). There are several newer teams from large high schools with little experience that will be thrown in with squads that have played for years and there will be severe mismatches as a result.
Teams also have to be recognized by the school district now, rather than just being organized by a parent's booster club. This has caused some existing programs to drop out, which is a shame. The booster club can still fund and support the team, and there is no Coach/Teacher requirement, which is nice. There will definitely be a step backward this year, and hopefully it leads to long-term growth. However, since the district has to sponsor it, it will be more difficult I believe to get teams started, since now you have to convince the AD, who doesn't like losing baseball players, track runners, etc., besides the football argument. Fortunately in my town, lacrosse is the "cool" sport now, so a lot of the football players do both, and many are excellent talents.
The challenge on my end is that we have added twice as many new refs as we had existing HS refs! We covered all the games before, now we have to spread the assignments out, and we will have lots of very raw refs with no exposure to the game before. Previously, most refs came from the lacrosse community. Training requirements have been extensive, and I have done a lot of it!
So overall, I guess we're poised for more growth, but I think it will be very incremental rather than exponential. This year is going to be very, very challenging to the established lacrosse communiity, and I would assume there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth before we're through. I'll keep you posted.

[Brent Burns]

public school clubs need to find a way to get the sport moved into the realm of UIL. That my friends will really change things.

Pardon my ignorance - what is UIL and why will it change things?
I'm in Michigan and we just went under the MHSAA umbrella, which isn't a great thing necessarily.

UIL stands for University Interscholastic League. Its website is http://www.uil.utexas.edu

[laxfan25]

I mentioned in my long-winded post above that lacrosse is now "cool" in my kids HS. A lot had to do with the movie "American Pie", which was actually based on East Grand Rapids High School, which the writer attended. Although the lacrosse scenes were hokey (and the refs uniforms were completely incorrect), it did raise the stature of the sport, which had been around about 10 years at that point.
So get your stick out of the pie and start hitting the wall! Ouch!!

[laxfan25]

One of the biggest things you can do to get a program off the ground is to start at the middle school level. This way, by the time the kids hit high school they're chomping at the bit to get a program going and they have some skills.
This is also what will bring the level of play around the country up to the level in "traditional" areas such as MD and NY. There, you know that kids have sticks in their hands coming out of the cradle. It's not that they're any better athletes (in fact, I think Michigan, Texas and California produce better specimens ), they've just been at it longer! Once kids elsewhere have that lifetime of experience there will no longer be differences in ability based on region, and you won't be awed by a roster that lists half it's players from Maryland (which is still Mecca in my eyes, although Long Island and upstate NY are pretty good shrines as well).

[Texas Logger]

One of the biggest things you can do to get a program off the ground is to start at the middle school level. This way, by the time the kids hit high school they're chomping at the bit to get a program going and they have some skills.
This is also what will bring the level of play around the country up to the level in "traditional" areas such as MD and NY. There, you know that kids have sticks in their hands coming out of the cradle. It's not that they're any better athletes (in fact, I think Michigan, Texas and California produce better specimens ), they've just been at it longer! Once kids elsewhere have that lifetime of experience there will no longer be differences in ability based on region, and you won't be awed by a roster that lists half it's players from Maryland (which is still Mecca in my eyes, although Long Island and upstate NY are pretty good shrines as well).

This is it. I completely agree, but there are simply not enough coaches around to bring Texas to that MD or NY level just yet. Coming from the Central, I can tell you that most of the youth lacrosse coaches were not "lacrosse guys," some were, but they were usually young with no previous experience.

And to think that my JV coach in high school started in the same place coaching experience wise as my current coach (The current one is better).

About when Texas gets a box league, that's when we'll be closer to that level. But let's not forget those powerhouse SMH teams losing a couple close games to MIAA schools.

[Ryan Turnbow]

We had a topic earlier about Texas high school teams playing out of state teams and I noticed both the highschool video sections on E-lacrosse featured two TX high school teams. Video clips of Highland Park playing St. Anne's - Belfield in Charlottesville, Virginia and Strake Jesuit playing in the Jesuit tourney they have been going to lately.

ESD is also back east right now. Played Severn 6-12, not that bad. They still have Mt. Lebanon and St. Paul to come.

Anyways check out lax power for the scores and E-lacrosse for the clips of the two games. Highland Park looks very impressive.