Voters missing Final Top 25 Poll Vote!

[Duffy34]

This is rediculous!! I dont know if this is possible but something needs to be done about this. The seedings are for the most part OK, but some are bad. I mean UMD as #6is just out right wrong and everyone knows that. Mich. is ranked way to high as well. I said this in the tourney suggestion post a while ago but it is things like this that still make the MCLA look like a JOKE, which as we can see, it still is. Might as well get some kegs for the sidelines in Dallas and all go out till 3am the night before the games. It is a shame because it is so easy to vote and Sonny has made it much easier. Also there is so much work that goes into this website and the tourney that this is a shame. No wonder the "real" lacrosse world thinks this league is a joke. The voters should be ashamed of themselves.

this is the wrong thread to gripe, try the championship chat room. Also, UMD earned their spot. Personally I would have them higher. If you feel disagree, search through other threads where this topic has been discussed, or feel free to message me

This is the perfect thread to gripe in. This news about people not voting, which screwed some of the rankings, is a big deal. And UMD has not played ANYONE other than CSU, BYU, Utah, and LU and they lot to everyone except LU. Look at their schedual, other than those teams above, it is a cake walk. #6 for UMD is almot laughable. but i guess this will all work it self out in the first round. Either way, something should be done about this. Make the names public, have a mandatory re-vote, something...

[LaxTV_Admin]

The MCLA needs a better turnout from the voters for the final vote. I mean it is important for all polls, but when a team's season could be hanging in the balance we owe it to them to vote. In my humble opinion, these players put in too much effort over the course of a season for us not to have voted.

Hopefully, we can find a way to improve this in the future. Either way, it should be a great championship tournament.

[Dan Wishengrad]

Folks, let me say again on behalf of the pollsters that this is not an exact science. We do the best we can with the available data and reach individual conclusions. The poll then represents our collective rankings.
Every year an argument can be made -- and almost always will -- that some deserving team was left out, or that the individual rankings of teams which did qualify should be reversed.

I hear no great outcry on the first issue, that of a team being left out who deserved to make nationals. The teams which fell below #16 in the final poll all had chances to move up by winning their conference tourneys, but were eliminated instead. Did we pollsters get this right, then?

On the second point, it really doesn't matter much in the final analysis where the tourney teams are ranked. This is a terrific sixteen field team, easily the strongest ever in the history of the USILA/USLIA/MCLA tourney. There will almost certainly be at least one "upset" in the first round, and the final four could very well include a team from the middle of the seedings pack, or lower. Whoever emerges to win the '07 tourney will have earned it on the field, and I doubt many convincing arguments will be heard that a beaten team would have won if only they were ranked 5th instead of 7th, or 2nd instead of 3rd or some such nonsense.

It's disappointing that all 40 of us pollsters failed to cast a vote, but I doubt the final poll would be much different had we all done so.

[DG]

This is rediculous!! I dont know if this is possible but something needs to be done about this. The seedings are for the most part OK, but some are bad. I mean UMD as #6is just out right wrong and everyone knows that. Mich. is ranked way to high as well. I said this in the tourney suggestion post a while ago but it is things like this that still make the MCLA look like a JOKE, which as we can see, it still is. Might as well get some kegs for the sidelines in Dallas and all go out till 3am the night before the games. It is a shame because it is so easy to vote and Sonny has made it much easier. Also there is so much work that goes into this website and the tourney that this is a shame. No wonder the "real" lacrosse world thinks this league is a joke. The voters should be ashamed of themselves.

Not to pick on you in particular Duffy, but how exactly did the MCLA get it more wrong than the NCAA this year? I'm seeing plenty of people who are wondering how Cornell is undefeated and #4.

I think that the poll is pretty good. Sure you could make an argument that a team is ranked too highly, and vice versa...but the bottom line is that it is very difficult to distinguish the teams in the 4-8 spots. They all either played a "soft" schedule, had a "bad" loss, or played a tough schedule but had "close losses."

[wapiti]

I agree with the post above, in the future post the results from respective voters. For a variety of reasons I think the votes should be public, anyway. Integrity and accountability come to mind. If a voter is going to assume the resposibility to participate the obligation is there to see it through. As posted earlier, participants work too hard, in terms of time committments ( and money ) for this to not be taken seriously by everyone.

Does anyone know, on the college football polls ( the AP ) are the participants votes released?

[wapiti]

Notwithstanding the post above - which had to do with participation - I do think the pollsters got it right this year. My issue was with the participation.............

[Jay Zabel]

It's disappointing that all 40 of us pollsters failed to cast a vote, but I doubt the final poll would be much different had we all done so.

I guess we'll never know. You have to admit it is a little upsetting that 30% of A and 35% of B voters didn't get their votes counted. I am just an outside viewer and find this awkward. I do feel sorry for all teams that waited for this poll to come out and it seems many of the pollsters were late or didn't even vote.

Even with this, I do think the field looks solid and should be a fun week. I wish the best of luck to all teams.

P.S.-GO DOGS!!!!

[Daniel Morris]

This is rediculous!! I dont know if this is possible but something needs to be done about this. The seedings are for the most part OK, but some are bad. I mean UMD as #6is just out right wrong and everyone knows that. Mich. is ranked way to high as well. I said this in the tourney suggestion post a while ago but it is things like this that still make the MCLA look like a JOKE, which as we can see, it still is. Might as well get some kegs for the sidelines in Dallas and all go out till 3am the night before the games. It is a shame because it is so easy to vote and Sonny has made it much easier. Also there is so much work that goes into this website and the tourney that this is a shame. No wonder the "real" lacrosse world thinks this league is a joke. The voters should be ashamed of themselves.

this is the wrong thread to gripe, try the championship chat room. Also, UMD earned their spot. Personally I would have them higher. If you feel disagree, search through other threads where this topic has been discussed, or feel free to message me

This is the perfect thread to gripe in. This news about people not voting, which screwed some of the rankings, is a big deal. And UMD has not played ANYONE other than CSU, BYU, Utah, and LU and they lot to everyone except LU. Look at their schedule, other than those teams above, it is a cake walk. #6 for UMD is almost laughable. but i guess this will all work it self out in the first round. Either way, something should be done about this. Make the names public, have a mandatory re-vote, something...

This is a completely unfair generalization. If you feel Michigan or UMD are too high, that is personal opinion, and most likely would not have changed with the additional voters. At nearly 100% voter attendance last week's poll the point totals say it all. Michigan at 4 and UMD just a couple spots higher. If you have a problem with voter turnout, fine, we all do, Sonny especially, but don't bitch about the placement of teams that would have in all likelihood remained the same as they are now becuase you would have it differently.

[nhoskins]

Folks, let me say again on behalf of the pollsters that this is not an exact science. We do the best we can with the available data and reach individual conclusions. The poll then represents our collective rankings.
Every year an argument can be made -- and almost always will -- that some deserving team was left out, or that the individual rankings of teams which did qualify should be reversed.

I hear no great outcry on the first issue, that of a team being left out who deserved to make nationals. The teams which fell below #16 in the final poll all had chances to move up by winning their conference tourneys, but were eliminated instead. Did we pollsters get this right, then?

On the second point, it really doesn't matter much in the final analysis where the tourney teams are ranked. This is a terrific sixteen field team, easily the strongest ever in the history of the USILA/USLIA/MCLA tourney. There will almost certainly be at least one "upset" in the first round, and the final four could very well include a team from the middle of the seedings pack, or lower. Whoever emerges to win the '07 tourney will have earned it on the field, and I doubt many convincing arguments will be heard that a beaten team would have won if only they were ranked 5th instead of 7th, or 2nd instead of 3rd or some such nonsense.

It's disappointing that all 40 of us pollsters failed to cast a vote, but I doubt the final poll would be much different had we all done so.

Heading into the tournament at #16 isn't all that bad. Not only do you get to play the best team first, with all your players well rested and safe from any potential injuries from playing 4 games in 5 days, but if you beat that #1 team, then you get their "easy" route to the finals. In the end, you have to beat the best teams to win the championship, so does it matter where you face them? No teams goal should be to win their first game and be satisfied with that. You're there to win a championship, plain and simple, not to win one game because you were ranked #6 instead of#8, then lose and pat yourselves on the back for being in the top 8.

[Duffy34]

Well obviously i touched a nerve with the UMD and Mich. talk...sorry i Just think that the resumes show that they are ranked to high, and i think it would have changed if everyone voted. you can say all you want but usually the final poll is a little different from the rest of the years. pollsters should look at a teams entire season as a whole for the final poll. And the ncaa got it wrong this year as well with cornell going number 4. it is still unbelievable that many votes were not sent in. and im bitching because its true mr tourney director, seedings from teams 4-8 would have and should have been different.

[DG]

Well obviously i touched a nerve with the UMD and Mich. talk...sorry i Just think that the resumes show that they are ranked to high, and i think it would have changed if everyone voted. you can say all you want but usually the final poll is a little different from the rest of the years. pollsters should look at a teams entire season as a whole for the final poll. And the ncaa got it wrong this year as well with cornell going number 4. it is still unbelievable that many votes were not sent in. and im bitching because its true mr tourney director, seedings from teams 4-8 would have and should have been different.

It is sad that many votes didn't get sent in. We can all agree on that.

However, why do you assume that the other 12 voters would see things so differently from the 28 that did vote as to change the seedings dramatically? IMO, that would not necessarily be the case.

[Moose]

Duffy you have every right to be angry about voter turnout. But to come out and say UMD should be lower is rediculous. I have been able to see most of their games and they deserve to be # 6 maybe higher. I would hardly say playing BYU, UTAH, CSU, and Lindenwood as a "soft" OOC schedule, these are some great teams. The games they lost were by one goal! Be angry about the votes but you are out of line with the UMD assessment!

[Duffy34]

Duffy you have every right to be angry about voter turnout. But to come out and say UMD should be lower is rediculous. I have been able to see most of their games and they deserve to be # 6 maybe higher. I would hardly say playing BYU, UTAH, CSU, and Lindenwood as a "soft" OOC schedule, these are some great teams. The games they lost were by one goal! Be angry about the votes but you are out of line with the UMD assessment!

I should carlify. I do not think UMD is a bad team, I just think that they desreve a 8 or 9 seed, im n ot saying they should be 16th. And other than those teams above, their schedual is not very impressive. Either way, it is what it is and in the end you need to beat everyone to win anyway so I am done with this topic. But i do still feel that if everyone voted, the seedings would be a little different, they always are for the last poll. I think you could switch CU and UMD with MIch possible even behind both of them, but whatever its set in stone now. I am excited to see (well hear bc i will be at work) a great tourney.

[murphlaxtx]

Duffy you have every right to be angry about voter turnout. But to come out and say UMD should be lower is rediculous. I have been able to see most of their games and they deserve to be # 6 maybe higher. I would hardly say playing BYU, UTAH, CSU, and Lindenwood as a "soft" OOC schedule, these are some great teams. The games they lost were by one goal! Be angry about the votes but you are out of line with the UMD assessment!

I agree completely. They played very hard and earned great respect in RMLC country in my opinion. Losing by 1 goal in each game against ranked, high quality competition does not mean they should be lower than #6. I agree that the turnout was not very good and it doesn't reflect well on the voting parties, but I do think that these brackets are correct. Good luck to all of you in the tournament.

[chslaxcoach]

I haven't seen a lot of teams play, but just looking at objective evidence, I do think the polls are hard to understand. I'm trying to find the argument (aside from "I saw them play and they looked good") for Michigan and UMD to be as high as they are.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am high school coach in Arizona. I have former players on Oregon, Arizona and ASU and the coaches at Michigan and BYU have been incredibly helpful to me for a long time. I have little or no contact with any of the other top 10 teams.

In an effort to try make sense of this years wild ride in the MCLA, I put together a spreadsheet that tries to show concisely what the top 10 teams did versus other top 10 teams. I believe that these games should be the primary criteria for determining the seeding.

Here is my spreadsheet. I put my rankings in there based on what I saw in front of me.

http://chslax.com/pages/mcla.html

(I'm sure there are mistakes. Let me know nicely and I'll fix 'em.)

I have UMD and Michigan lower than the pollsters. Could someone give my nerdy brain a mathematical argument why those teams are as high as they are?

Congrats to all of the teams out there (UMD, Oregon, ASU) who made big strides this year so that this argument could be so complicated!

Thanks,
Dave ...