5/2/07 Division B Top 25 Poll is out

[horn17]

So I want to say this year before any of the games start that it would be really nice if every team took all of the consolation games seriously. I am a little sick of people making excuses and saying we didn't care, or we didn't want to play because we were pissed we lost or anything. I feel like a lot of teams will make the excuse after losing that they didn't take it seriously. Have some respect for the sport of lacrosse and the integrity of your program and your conference by playing all out in every game. I know that it would be nice if you were in the championships but if you only play lacrosse to win the championships then you might be disappointed every year.

Im sorry if this is not the time to say this or it didn't need to be said or I'm way off base but I can't stand it and I'm trying to avoid some papers I should be doing.

There is a reason the NCAA has gotten rid of consolation & 3rd place games in virtually all of their championship sports.

The MCLA is going in that direction. Personally, I think you should get to play one consolation game, if you lose on the first day. That is it. If you lose in the quarterfinals, you have played twice in Dallas and your season is over.

There is just no good way to end a season. The finality of all is emotional for all involved and you can't artificially pump players/coaches up to give the same effort after a loss in the national championship tournament.

I disagree here....most of these games should be looked at as great competition for the spirt and fun of the game....we are always complaing and arguing about a "turn out issue" - if you cut the week shorter and send teams home...wait and see how your "turn out" will be.... you'll not only lose support from the teams that help make this league as great as it is - I know I dont want to stick around in Dallas and "watch" if we have no reason to play...at least consolation games give teams a week of fun in the sun and lax to play, friends to meet, coaching ideas exchanged, scheduling possiblities???

Heck I know some coaches that dont even make the Championship games required on their trip as it is, and we were complaining about turn out last year....

If you toss out the consolation games, you are throwing away the opportunity for players to meet new faces, play against a team they normaly couldnt...


[/i]The finality of all is emotional for all involved and you can't artificially pump players/coaches up to give the same effort after a loss in the national championship tournament.[/]

Cop out. Sounds like the same arguement you hear from only a select group that they use for losing a game/ or not wanting to play the week out...we all understand that after the first round, if you lose, its about the expierence and growing as team and players....we all know that there are those that think this should be a smaller showcase of just "certain ranked schools" - they should just form their own league then...

Not to mention if I have to schedule a week's vacation, and then come back half way through the week...what a joke, im not going to spend a bunch of money to watch a tourney my team might have been sent home on Monday from...have you even looked at what it costs to change plane tickets like that?? A SMALL FORTUNE FOR A COLLEGE KID........at least they can enjoy their expiernce - even if they are still playing consolation games...

They have a tournament for that - going and watching great teams play great lacrosse, spending money and having a great time NOT PLAYING OR COACHING...its called the...NCAA Tourney

If it aint broke..dont fix it... - remember some where in this whole process we seem to forgot this is for the players..

[Hi-Line Lax]

I can tell you all right now that if we end up playing a consolation game we will be using our bench players... these guys don't get to play nearly the amount of time that our starters do and it gets them a chance to get some time, after all they paid the same dues. I'm not saying that we won't play hard, but it won't be our starters.

As for Horn... St. Thomas still lost twice (and more recently), plus they don't have the quality wins that we have. Figures though... a UMD coach making an argument for quality losses. We fell out of the top 10 entirely with our two losses, as least I feel confident that we've played our way back to the top... I don't think the same can be said for St. Thomas. I'm sure they have the game to compete with the best, they just haven't earned a first round bye in my mind.

[Sonny]

Horn,

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

I've been at every USLIA/USL MDIA/MDIA/MCLA tournament. While it is noble to think that everyone should play their hardest every time on the field... The "novelty" of playing diferent teams from around the country has worn off as more teams travel during the regular season.

P.s. Me things you would be singing a different tune if Duluth was say a top five ranked team and lost an opening round game. I respect everything Coach Graff has developed with the UMD players & program, but I think Vince Lombardi would have a tough time motivating his players for a 9am meaningless game the following day.

[Beta]

St. Thomas still lost twice (and more recently), plus they don't have the quality wins that we have.

St Thomas Currently Ranked Opponents Beaten
(6) Harding 14-7
(11) Calvin 11-5
(Div A) Minnesota 9-3
(20) Creighton 18-9

B losses (St Johns X 2)

Montana Currently Ranked Opponents Beaten
(9) Western Washington 10-9
(10) Northern Colorado 15-10
(12) Montana State 17-10
(17) Western Oregon 24-3
(19) Southern Oregon 18-7

B losses (UVSC and Montana State)

[horn17]

Horn,

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

I've been at every USLIA/USL MDIA/MDIA/MCLA tournament. While it is noble to think that everyone should play their hardest every time on the field... The "novelty" of playing diferent teams from around the country has worn off as more teams travel during the regular season.

P.s. Me things you would be singing a different tune if Duluth was say a top five ranked team and lost an opening round game. I respect everything Coach Graff has developed with the UMD players & program, but I think Vince Lombardi would have a tough time motivating his players for a 9am meaningless game the following day.

Well we agree to disagree thne...keep in mind, just my opnion....Vince Lomabardi doesnt apply here...he's been dead for years...

So the thought process is..... Just take the top 6 from the polls and see what happens? Watch and see how much "devotion" there is to this league if you did something like that....you still didnt address the "complaints about the turn out" - I think we need to realize that if you shorten it...they wont come, and if the goal is to get 4 -6 teams on tv every year, then you could have something going by trimming the week...
(wow are trying to mimic the NCAA that much?)


High Line...Im not arguing about their schedule, or their losses, nor yours... I think they are fine where they are...do i think you guys deserve top 5 - yes...I just dont think you drop St. Thomas out of the top 4.....

1. SJU
2. Westminster
3. St. Thomas/ Montana
4. Montana/St. Thomas
5. Dayton

I think everyone is fine really...but to me these are the top 5 teams... Hi Line, keep in mind I wasnt discrediting you or attempting to blast your team, but my point is you had the luxury of bouncing back...they dont until Dalls...you guys are good, and have rebounded after two losses to two teams not ranked in the top 5. My point if anything is - you lost to what ranked number of teams?? You had the ability to work back correct??? Where does St. Thomas have that luxury considering nationals is just a couple of weeks away, and everything is done with the exception of a couple of confrence tourneys...

I cant justify them falling below 5 - that should have been in my original post

I think using the UMD aspect is a cheapshot, where have I used that arguement here - and I dont ever, but you have to say that I guess to make your point....keep it classy, huh?! - This is the B poll forum not the A...

[horn17]

nevermind....hit the button...

[Daniel Morris]

I think Coach Horn has a lot of great points. I would love to see every game at the tournament, consolation or not, be treated with respect and full of energy and competition. But I am with Sonny, they just aren't and that is a fact. The bottom seeds just happy to have made it? They love the consolations games and the chance to prove they aren't a fluke. But the top seeds expecting a championship? No way. They lose, their season is over and they begrudgingly play the games.

There is always a lot of talk about expanding the Division B to 16 teams, If it happens, you can say goodbye to consolation games, or at least a guaranteed three game week. There just isn't enough daylight to play that many games without lengthening the week or adding fields which means adding staff, refs, and costs. If we go to regional tournaments with a national final four, the consolations will disappear as well.

So all I can say is, appreciate the consolations while they are here. Have a great time at the tournament and if you unfortunately lose, relish in the opportunity to play a meaningless game just for the thrill of it. You don't know how many more there will ever be, so play each as if it was your last!

[horn17]

agreed...

I wish there was a happy medium...

[scooter]

ok....no 16 teams for the B division....how about 14 teams for both the A and B leagues.....just a thought

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

St. Thomas still lost twice (and more recently), plus they don't have the quality wins that we have.

St Thomas Currently Ranked Opponents Beaten
(6) Harding 14-7
(11) Calvin 11-5
(Div A) Minnesota 9-3
(20) Creighton 18-9

B losses (St Johns X 2)

Montana Currently Ranked Opponents Beaten
(9) Western Washington 10-9
(10) Northern Colorado 15-10
(12) Montana State 17-10
(17) Western Oregon 24-3
(19) Southern Oregon 18-7

B losses (UVSC and Montana State)

If you're gonna put it out there, you need to get it correct. Montana also just shut out #19 Southern Oregon 13-0 and then beat #9 Western Washington 8-6 in the PNCLL Championship game.

They also beat Montana State and Northern Colorado when they were both in the top-10 (both on the same day), so technically they have 4 wins vs. top-10 teams. . .and St. Thomas has none.

But honestly, St. Thomas at least tried to play tough OOC competition, so I have less of a problem with them in the top-4 than I do Dayton, who didn't even attempt to play a National schedule. If we reward them with a bye, what message are we sending?

[Beta]

If you're gonna put it out there, you need to get it correct.

Easy there Tex. I was just putting up the information from the collegelax team site, a simple "add this game, and this game" will do just as nicely since post-season stats typically (and in this case aren't) in the collegelax.us team pages.

I do remember putting "currently ranked" up there for a reason/disclaimer. Just because a team starts off with a high ranking doesn't mean they'll finish that way. When a lot of people look at how a team is doing now, it is very common to see people say at the end of a season:

"...they beat a team that is 3-12..."

...rather than:

"...they beat them when they were preseason #X and 1-0"

[Johnnielax13]

They also beat Montana State and Northern Colorado when they were both in the top-10 (both on the same day), so technically they have 4 wins vs. top-10 teams. . .and St. Thomas has none.

Seriously? That's like saying Bush is the most loved President ever, because 4 years ago, he had the highest approval rating ever for an American President.

Come on.

Plus UST beat Harding, who is currently in the top 10.

and I don't even like the Tommies, but

If you're gonna put it out there, you need to get it correct.

[lax_chef]

i dont see why SCAD is a head of UNC-C, when UNC-C beat SCAD at SCAD and their only loss to a B teams is in the SELC championship game to Emory. What has SCAD done this season?

took the words right outta my mouth...scad shouldnt be ranked above charlotte...and charlotte should get an invite to dallas over scad...wtf?

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

If you're gonna put it out there, you need to get it correct.

Easy there Tex. I was just putting up the information from the collegelax team site, a simple "add this game, and this game" will do just as nicely since post-season stats typically (and in this case aren't) in the collegelax.us team pages.

I do remember putting "currently ranked" up there for a reason/disclaimer. Just because a team starts off with a high ranking doesn't mean they'll finish that way. When a lot of people look at how a team is doing now, it is very common to see people say at the end of a season:

"...they beat a team that is 3-12..."

...rather than:

"...they beat them when they were preseason #X and 1-0"

I'm not from Texas. . .

And the only reason MSU and UNC are no longer in the top-10 is that Montana beat them both on the same day. Either way, MSU and UNC are both quality teams that will likely end up in Texas. I guess that is my point. . .

I didn't mean to come off as being irritated, I just thought if you were going to take the time to compare teams, you should include all of their games.

UST is the real deal, and like I've said before, I think they belong in the top-4 and have EARNED their first-round bye. They played a national schedule, beat multiple ranked teams, and their only losses are to the #1 team in the country. . .twice. Before St. John's beat UST they were #1 in my poll, so I'm not knocking them at all.

I just wanted the record to accurately reflect Montana's 7 top-25 wins. . .

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

Plus UST beat Harding, who is currently in the top 10.

I stand corrected.