One Team Dominance

[Gooseguy10]

Before I post this I will give you a couple of disclaimers. First, I played at UMD. Second, I am not affiliated with the team anymore. Third, I did not see any of the games this year (besides the one on the net). Fourth, I do not want to start world war III here.

With that being said, with lacrosse blowing up all over in the midwest, why haven't other UMLL teams been able to consistently close the competition gap with duluth?

zs

[henrij4]

With the amount of talent out there many kids already go to Duluth are the U to play. For other schools great lacrosse players are there but don't always play for their respective school, I know for a fact going to Mankato we have many great players around campus but getting them to play can be a challenge with what they want out of their college experience. the commitment you have to make to play lacrosse is sometimes exhausting, where some players don't want to deal with it whcih is upsetting because many teams would be more competetive if these players are a part of the team. It also is tough because with a club sport you have to pay to play whcih some players don't have the means to get by. Coaching is an important part because they motivate their players to make that commitment and stick with it.

[Adam G]

It's a matter of time, in my opinion. A few years ago, lacrosse was unheard of in WI, and big parts of MN. Now look at some of the talent put out, especially coming out of the Madison area. Guys who had never intended on going to established UMLL schools (UMD, SJU, UST, UMN, MSU... names are purely arbitrary) are excited to play competitive ball at the UMLL level at a different place.

With the growth of the sport in new areas, comes new talent who will undoubtedly choose teams to play for not on lacrosse alone, but on proximity to home and their acadmic interests.

Look at conferences like RMLC, WCLL, and the PCLL. These schools come from areas of the country where lacrosse has been established far longer than it has in our locale. As time, exposure, coaching, support and excitement grow, so will the competition in our league. Each year competition gets better in my opinion, and I can't wait to see the UMLL bring home a natty champ this year in TX to prove our development!

[Gooseguy10]

But UMD draws from the same talent pool as everyone else in the UMLL? Why is UMD always on top?

[Champ]

Coaching and an established system that was put in to place many years ago. Once you get the snowball rolling..

[DwinsChamps]

Lacrosse is indeed blowing up in the midwest; growth has been tremendous in the past five years. BUT...the UMLL A-division is comprised primarily of Minnesota teams, with the exception of UW-Steven's Point and Iowa State.

If we can assume that the majority of UMLL lacrosse players attend college in their home states, then can we assume that midwestern youth and high school lacrosse leagues serve as significant contributors to UMLL teams? If so, it should be noted that lacrosse in Iowa has not seen the same explosive growth as it has in other midwest states...which translates into fewer experienced players attending Iowa State. In Wisconsin, youth leagues are in their infancies and have yet to significantly contribute to the UMLL or UW-Steven's Point.

Minnesota highschool lax in definitely the premier hotbed in the upper midwest, and MN UMLL teams are the evidence. Lax has recently been given varsity status at a number of MN highschools (none in Iowa or Wisconsin) and many other field competitive club teams. This means lots and lots of students graduating high school with lacrosse experience, ready (assuming the above suppositions are true) to attend college instate, and perhaps play UMLL lacrosse.

Duluth's pursuit of excellence, in the facets of recruiting, coaching, and the notoriety that comes with being a highly-succesful program, have paid dividends over the past few years in drawning many talented players with highschool experience. Once there, they are under the tutelage of an excellent staff that's headed by a former D1 player. But, as more UMLL teams are able to concentrate their recruiting efforts, attract talented players, and give them extraordinary coaching, the "gap" which Duluth has created may shrink. Not to mention, it was less than 4 years ago that the UofM, and not Duluth, was atop the UMLL A-division.

[Dulax31]

Coaching, Coaching, Coaching, oh and did I mention Coaching?

Without a good coach to keep our team organized and motivated, our team would crumble.

[Adam G]

But UMD draws from the same talent pool as everyone else in the UMLL? Why is UMD always on top?

Because playing for a distinguished lacrosse team isn't always paramount in a lot of guys choice of school. And as that base of those who have skill at the game choose to go to a school that doesn't actively recruit them, but choose to play because they love the game, and are lucky enough to play in a league like ours, the talent level across the board will increase. Not everyone recruited to a team will play at that team because someone showed interest in them, most will chose their future education first and play secondary.

:Edit:
I posted that without reading DwinsChamps or Fleck's posts..

[Dylan Dickey]

With that being said, with lacrosse blowing up all over in the midwest, why haven't other UMLL teams been able to consistently close the competition gap with duluth? zs

I believe structure of the organization and coaching longevity has tons to do with it. Look at the top A and B teams in the league, then look at how long their coaching staff has been in place. UofM had Chris for quite a while and a league championship in '05, Duluth has had Rob for ages...14 or more years and many league championships to show for it. St. John's and St. Thomas have both made their mega strides with dedicated coaches of more than a few years (I think Mark has been with St. John's for 5+ ??? I don't know, and Pete with St. Thomas for 4 or more years??) UWSP has had the same coach for at least 5 years, but I am unsure of his level of commitment. Beyond that I don't know. Art Ayers coached Mankato for quite a few years and at that time they were neck and neck with Duluth.

Another stong factor is alumni support and alumni influence down in the highschool level.

You get that longevity, you build a reputation, you become the program kids want to be a part of.

[Npaulseth]

Coaching, recruiting, and team history.

Those are the three reasons they are so good. The Gophers got lucky with all of the talent they landed when they beat them a couple years ago in the UMLL championship back when Lars was coaching.

When people from around the country think of MN lacrosse, they think of Coach Graff.

[TexOle]

I think it is more commitment. Duluth, UMN, SJU, and UST have made the commitment to hire coaches. UWSP had a great season years ago when they made the commitment to hire a coach. It really takes a commitment by the players (or school) to hire a good coach. I would like to say Coach Graff is the top coach in Minnesota and one of the best in the MCLA, but I truly think he does more than just coach. His dedication to lacrosse in Minnesota has helped build the sport to what we have today. Hurley is doing a great job with the U, and I think that team will soon catch UMD. SJU and UST used to be the worst teams in the UMLL, but they made a commitment to their team and hired a coach. I think if other teams would make the same commitment of hiring a coach then they could close the gap.

Lars also helps out a tremendous amount with the UMLL and MCLA that nobody notices. I know Mark Hellenack and others have also made commitments to this sport in Minnesota. That has not only helped their individual teams, but also the growth of the sport in the state. We all owe a lot gratitude to those who work to make UMLL and other lacrosse in the state succeed.

[Sandwich8]

Coaching, recruiting, and team history.

This can be summed in one word 'program'. UMD has established a program, not just a team, to be continually successful it takes more than fielding a few talented palyers. It takes alumni support, administration and (as addressed repeatedly) dedication and determination on the part of players and coaches.

Somebody, he was big guy, smart, once said...
"Success breed’s complacency, complacency breeds weakness, and weakness inevitably meets and succumbs to strength."

UMD has never been complacent.

[Anderson]

But UMD draws from the same talent pool as everyone else in the UMLL? Why is UMD always on top?

The other thing is that the teams are not really drawing from the same talent pool. I have only been in Iowa for a year but from what I understand the two hotbeds for lacrosse currently are the Twin cities and Chicago. When it comes to MN most of the established players go to the larger schools in their state. Now I know there are a few who choose to go out of state but for the most part people tend to stay in there own state for college, and as stupid as it sounds more people go to the larger universities. This limits the amount of established players that smaller schools in MN will receive just by chance. And as uwec_attack said lacrosse is not the first choice for what university you attend.

I agree coaching is a big part of it but if you have to teach new players how to play the game every year it limits the amount of team coaching that you can do.

Finally, this is extremely similar to what was going on in the LSA 8 years ago when I was a freshmen at Texas Tech. the first year I played we had at least 5 new players who had never played the game before. By my senior year every new player to the team had played somewhere in HS.
The gap between UMD and other teams in the UMLL may seem large at this point, but it will close and when it does it will close quickly.

[Gooseguy10]

I will chime in here. First, I do not think that if UMD didn't have a coach like Rob, it would "crumble." This in no way is meant as disrespect to rob. A wise man once said "any team is bigger than one man" (rob in 1999). Second, someone mentioned the U winning in 2005. You could add Mankato in 2000 and the U in 1999. But that isn't consitent competition. Third, unless things have changed since I was there, UMD doesn't have that many resources from the school as one might think. Also, Graff isn't paid. Finally another question, what do teams have to do to gain the aspects that made UMD successful? Rob isn't the only qualified coach in Minnesota. UMD isn't the only program that has alumni. UMD isn't the only one recruiting. There are schools with bigger student bases. It just seems to me that the competition gap continues to grow.

It would be really nice to see a league where three-four teams have a good chance at competing for the championship, not just one with a few one year contenders.

[Dylan Dickey]

Gooseguy10 wrote - Second, someone mentioned the U winning in 2005. You could add Mankato in 2000 and the U in 1999. But that isn't consitent competition.

I feel that leading up to the above mentioned championships were continuous progression by the programs. Why don't we see consistancy? Lars resigned after the U took it in 2005 and Ayers resigned after Mankato took it in 2000 (or maybe the next year). Can you imagine the impact that that would have on a program? I agree that one man doesn't make or break a program necessarily, but they can have a huge impact on exactly how successful a program is with consistency. Give me a top 20 team nationally who DOESN'T have longevity in their coaching staff. Also, I agree that UMD isn't the only program out their with active alumni, but their level of activity in the MN lacrosse community, and with their almamader, is superior to that of any other UMLL team from what I can see (which isn't everything).

Rob isn't the only qualified coach in Minnesota.

You are correct, but qualified doesn't mean willing or commited.

Anderson wrote - When it comes to MN most of the established players go to the larger schools in their state.

UMD is actually quite small for a public school, about 9,000 undergrads.

Gooseguy10, I think you raise some very good questions. Having played my four years and having been part of the team's administration, the very questions you raised frustrated me nearly all four of my playing years with Mankato. "What does it take?"