Historic 2008 Election?

[Hackalicious]

It is certainly not a right, however, it should be a benefit of living in an advanced society such as ours.

I think I should eat Surf and Turf each night. That most certainly is a benefit of living in such an advanced society.

Do you think it's fair to allow others to use the imperial power of the federal government to force you to open your wallet to grant me Steak & Lobster tonight? Why is it different with medical insurance?

If you don't eat surf'n'turf, you won't clog up the emergency room, spread diseases, or miss work. Other people's lack of health care means your health or business may suffer.

Think of it like the fire department. We could have a private fire protection that only served people who subscribed to their service. If you couldn't afford it, tough luck. Get a job hippy. That's the way it actually used to work. The problem was that when some people can't afford it, their houses catch fire and end up burning down half the city.

Look at it as an infrastructure investment. We invest in public education to have a more skilled, competitive workforce that can compete in a global market. Why not invest in health care to have a more healthy, productive workforce?

Or look at it as defending American livelihood. You have no problem investing in a socialized military to save American lives. Why not invest in public health care that will save more American lives per dollar?

Our government already spends more of our GDP per capita on health care than other industrialized countries that have universal coverage, and gets the least service for our tax dollars. Might as well be smarter about it and save tax money in the long run.

[DanGenck]

I just wanted to let everybody know that I have put together the paperwork for an exploratory committee about running for President of the United States in 2008. Here are the current numbers I have been provided by some reliable sources (several members of the Kent School Class of 2009).

Dan Genck- 87%
Barack Obama- 9%
Hilary Clinton- 6%

Margin of error- +/- 4%

I think these numbers show that America is ready for a change and that the Dan Genck ticket is hot enough to carry me on a tidal wave all the way to the presidency.

I'll be flying around on Marine One and eating surf and turf in the oval office in less than 2 years!

[CATLAX MAN]

The plague? Ebola? SARS? West Nile? Those can spread around as well and are a general safety hazard.

That is what the Center of Disease Control (CDC) is for, not private health care.

[Zeuslax]

It looks like all of the candidates have decided to opt out on public funding for their campaigns. Current estimates put spending at 500 million for each parties nominee. This makes the pool of 35 million provided by the American public fairly paltry at best. I think I read that 11 million people decided on last years taxes to donate the 3 dollars to the public fund. This would put the pot at 35 million dollars for the Dennis Kucinich's of the world. Peanuts in todays politics.

Also, Hillary still holds a pretty good lead and Giulani is outpacing McCain. Seems like the hard conservatives are rallying around Giuliani which is a little surprising considering his social politics. It's so early and Mitt Romney is just getting started. There's such a big stigmatism with the LDS church though and this seems to be hurting him a little right now. Even with all the press that Obama is getting he's still a relatively unknown. People seem to really "like" Edwards so this is going to be really interesting. I guess Gore is getting pushed a lot to get into the race too.

One thing is fairly obvious from all the polling and with the presidents ratings, the public is ready for a change. 2 weeks is like a year in politics.

[CATLAX MAN]

One thing is fairly obvious from all the polling and with the presidents ratings, the public is ready for a change.

That and the more important fact that he can't run again.

[Woodlawn]

I'll be interested to see the reaction of the Religious Right if the next president does not reflect their "moral" views. Obviously if the next president is a democrat they almost assured of being pro-choice, etc etc etc and would that be likely to drive the Religious Right to new extremes? As I recall, the last time we had a democratic president there were more than a few right wing lash outs at society. Abortion clinic bombings, Olympic Park Bombing, Oklahoma City bombing, gay bar bombings, and assassinations of doctors who performed abortions. If the next president reverses the government trends along the same road (albeit slowly) as the religious right, will these persons begin to lash out at society again?

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

I'll be interested to see the reaction of the Religious Right if the next president does not reflect their "moral" views. Obviously if the next president is a democrat they almost assured of being pro-choice, etc etc etc and would that be likely to drive the Religious Right to new extremes? As I recall, the last time we had a democratic president there were more than a few right wing lash outs at society. Abortion clinic bombings, Olympic Park Bombing, Oklahoma City bombing, gay bar bombings, and assassinations of doctors who performed abortions. If the next president reverses the government trends along the same road (albeit slowly) as the religious right, will these persons begin to lash out at society again?

You're now blaming Oklahoma City and the Olympic Park bombings on the Religious Right? Those diabolical, fanatical, crazy Christians. I'd hate to have one move in next door. . .

Why don't you just blame Bush. . .it would be a much more popular position.

[Woodlawn]

Well lets see.

After the false accusation of a security guard for the Olympic Park Bombing, the investigation made little progress until early 1997, when two more bombings took place at an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub, both in the Atlanta area. Similarities in the bomb design forced investigators to concede that a lone person was responsible for all of them. Letters sent to newspapers claimed responsibility in the name of the Army of God. One more bombing of an abortion clinic, this time in Birmingham, Alabama, which killed a policeman working as a security guard and seriously injured nurse Emily Lyons, gave the FBI crucial clues including a partial license plate. The plate and other clues led the FBI to identify Eric Robert Rudolph as a suspect. Rudolph eluded capture and became a fugitive. He was captured and is serving 4 concurrant life sentences in a federal prison in Colorado.

I never said all Christians are crazy. I never said it was a right wing conspiracy. I'd love to blame Bush........ But what I said was that when the government is not headed in the direction that the extreme right wing Christians would like, then it seems that vigilantes take the law into their own hands. Because Christians (especially the right wing) see the world as black and white, there's no room for compromise.

Right now, the extreme right (just listen to Dr. James Dobson on any given day) is unhappy with the speed and course of the American Government. His website even derides the use of the new HPV vaccine because his group believes that erradication of the Human Pampalona (sp) virus would increase sexual promiscuity...... ummmmm....

I'm just worried that if a new democratic president joins the democratic majority in Congress that the speed and direction change of the government would create more Radical Christian vigilantes. Sort of reminiscant of Radical Islamic vigilantes...... I don't hold Islam responsible for their extremists, nor do I hold Christianity responsible for Eric Rudolph and the like. But I will say that both religions produce fundamentalist extremists when their governments do not profess the same strict code of religiosity that their sect believes (Pakistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc)....

It was meant as food for thought, not an assault on Christianity or your precious president.....

(But I do hate Bush)

[btriley01]

Heres some food for thought:

Anyone who blows up an abortion clinic isn't a christian. They are religious extremists. Just as muslims aren't the problem, shi'ites are. Where ever there is a religion, there will be fundametalists. If you believe that this would happen, why weren't there any bombings of conservative institutions when there was a republican congress and president less than a year ago. The answer is because your biased opinion of the right wing whack jobs turns you to believe this crap is the conservatives fault. Sorry we have morals.

[Woodlawn]

Shia Islam and Sunni Islam are simply divisions of Islam just as Protestant and Catholic are in Christianity. To call all Shi'ite Muslims "religious Whack Jobs" is as intellectually immature as calling all Catholics bombers of British and Northern Irish targets.

Take your defensive knee jerk reactions off and analyze the fact that there are extremeists in every religion.

[Woodlawn]

As well, perhaps when the Conservatives are in power, we don't see the extreme liberals bombing conservative institutions because there is no black and white uncompromising religious code which liberals adhere to. There seems to be more room to compromise.

[Kyle Berggren]

Woodlawn, I do not agree with your opinion, & I'm in a hurry so I can't fully respond at this time, but I do believe you're barking up the wrong tree. It would be interesting to grab an economist to try & figure if there were a connection between bombings the president's political affiliation. It seems as though you're trying to say abortion clinics have never been attacked while a Liberal was in office... I don't have the facts, but I'll bet extreme pro-lifer's are extreme pro-lifer's regardless of what happens in Washington.

I'm a true conservative, in the sense that Barry Goldwater intended it. The "religious right" is very associated with conservative politics, but at the start of the movement (and to quite a large degree in the party), religion doesn't have a place in politics. I believe Goldwater said something to the effect of, "I think it's great many of my conservatives have found religion, but it has no place in politics." I point this out because your assumptions about the right (and most folks assumptions) are based on the media. Conservatives & the Right have 1 major sticking issue with the Liberal left, finance. Maybe I live in Washington so my views are too far away from the bulk of the US, but nearly everyone up here is a Liberal (go figure), & I attended a Liberal Lutheran University. Christians aren't necessarily on the right, I'll bet there's very little correlation to who's Christian & the party they affiliate with. Alright, end rant, back to preparing for our Conference Tournament.

[btriley01]

Shia Islam and Sunni Islam are simply divisions of Islam just as Protestant and Catholic are in Christianity. To call all Shi'ite Muslims "religious Whack Jobs" is as intellectually immature as calling all Catholics bombers of British and Northern Irish targets.

Take your defensive knee jerk reactions off and analyze the fact that there are extremeists in every religion.

See, now I understand the ignorance of where you come from. The Shi'ite muslim religion only represents 10% of the muslim population in the world. Guess where they all live. Ok, i'll tell you: Iran. They have openly declared war on all jews, secular governments, and anyone who believes in any western civil philosophy. Gee, sounds a little extreme, don't ya think? They are the fundamentalists of which you speak. All of the lovely Zealots of our age, including Al Sadir and Ahmedinijiad (spelling not perfect), are Shi'ite muslims. now what was that about immature intellect. I think the saying goes take the log out of your own eye.

As for there being no extremist left who would use terrors you profess the extremist right does, that is completely untrue. Have you ever seen protests by PETA or the Sierra club? I'm sure they've never used violence before. How about green peace trying to destroy oil rigs? Does that ring a bell? It can go either way. I'm not defending any extremist actions, but you have to look at both sides.

On a side note, I am glad to say this is the first time i have ever agreed with Kyle Berggren.

[Woodlawn]

Ok, my collegiate major was a BA and then MA in History. My focal points included Islamic Civilization.

I hate to break it to you.

Shia Muslims believe that the descendents from Muhammad through his daughter Fatima Zahra and his son-in-law Ali (the Imams) were the best source of knowledge about the Qur'an and Islam, the most trusted carriers and protectors of Muhammad's Sunnah (traditions), and the most worthy of emulation.

In particular, Shia Muslims recognize the succession of Ali (Muhammad's cousin, son-in-law, the first man to accept Islam — second only to Muhammad's wife Khadija — the male head of the Ahl al-Bayt or "people of the Prophet's house") and the father of the Prophet Muhammad's only bloodline as opposed to that of the caliphate recognized by Sunni Muslims. Shia Muslims believe that Ali was appointed successor by Muhammad's direct order on many occasions, and that he is therefore the rightful leader of the Muslim faith.

The Sunnis disagree. The Sunnah (the example of Muhammad's life) is the main pillar of Sunni doctrine, as recorded in the Qur'an and the hadith. Sunnis believe that the first four caliphs of the Muslim community were the rightful successors to Muhammad. They hold that since God did not specify the leaders of the Muslim community after Muhammad, they had to be elected.

Directly from the US Government:

Approximately 15-20% of the world's Muslims are Shia. There are an estimated 130 to 190 million Shia Muslims (including Twelvers, Ismailis, Zaidis) throughout the world, about three quarters of whom reside in Iran, Pakistan, India, Iraq, Azerbaijan, and Afghanistan.

A large portion of the world's Shia live in the Middle East. The Shia Population of the Middle East constitutes a majority in Yemen, Azerbaijan, Iraq, Bahrain and especially Iran, where 90% of the population is Shia, giving it the highest percentage of Shia Muslims of any country in the world. In Lebanon Shia form a plurality, and they remain as significant minorities in Afghanistan, Syria, India, Pakistan, Turkey and Yemen. Among the smaller Persian Gulf states, Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates also have significant Shia minorities, as does the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia.

About 20% of India's Muslim population is Shia, and significant Shia communities exist on the coastal regions of West Sumatra and Aceh in Indonesia. Shia presence is negligible elsewhere in Southeast Asia, where Muslims are predominantly Shafi'i Sunnis.

Also..... for the sake of educational purposes..... there is no Shi'ite religion. There is no Sunnite religion either. Shia and Sunni are the branches of Islam, and a Shi'ite and a Sunnite are the proper names of a follower of one of the distinct brances of Islam. Also, a Muslim is a person, not a religion. The religion is Islam.

Additionally, there's more than just Shia and Sunni Islam. There are the Suffi (Suffi'ite) , Khariji (Kharijite) and Druze sects.

There are plenty of zealots in all the branches of Islam. (All the hijackers on 9/11 were Sunni).

How does crow taste?

See, now I understand the ignorance of where you come from. The Shi'ite muslim religion only represents 10% of the muslim population in the world. Guess where they all live. Ok, i'll tell you: Iran. They have openly declared war on all jews, secular governments, and anyone who believes in any western civil philosophy. Gee, sounds a little extreme, don't ya think? They are the fundamentalists of which you speak. All of the lovely Zealots of our age, including Al Sadir and Ahmedinijiad (spelling not perfect), are Shi'ite muslims. now what was that about immature intellect. I think the saying goes take the log out of your own eye.

[Kyle Berggren]

You guys are now arguing over who's Islamic knowledge is better, on behalf of myself, please stop it. "There are 3 types of lies," we can find statistics to back up either position.. I'd like to suggest a Karen Armstrong book Battle for God. You both might like it, but it compares & contrasts Christianity, Islam, & Judaism (& various sects focusing on Islam).

The thread (already political) left topic to hit on an accusation that Extremist Right Wing crazies bomb abortion clinics. The implication was that those folks had to be both Christian & Republicans, they couldn't simply be extreme pro-lifers. Whether either or both of you can supply links to your facts doesn't really matter in my eyes, I don't think either of you made them up. I'm still going to believe we all have preconceived notions of the other side. If you catch me on the wrong day & ask me to describe a typical liberal, you're not going to like my answer. Neither are all the other single mom's in Washington. As a conservative Republican, I hope I get the chance to vote for a fiscally conservative Mormon soon. I could care less that he's Mormon. I don't like cats, that shouldn't effect the cat lovers.

What I do hope happens is we stop paying for lazy people to live their lives. I've got examples if you want them, but I think we're all pretty aware of welfare cases that involve people driving Mercedes. More so, I'd like to see liberals step up the plate & open their pocket books for charity. There was an interesting talk on the radio about how Kerry & family gave something like $20k to charity the same year Chaney was chastised for his golden parachute. I believe Chaney gave upwards of 10 million to charity that year, but I'm sure I'm off on the numbers a bit. The bottom line, my problem with most liberals isn't their views, I share many, it's their typical feeling that they are entitled to what's their's & what's mine. When democrats step up to the plate & put their money where their mouth is, they more than earn my respect. I hold them in the highest regard, however, it's rare at best.

With the social programs we're pursuing, we might as well forget to teach the concept of being responsible for yourself & actions to our children. Lending a helping hand is wonderful when it's not expected & taken advantage of. I post this knowing it will probably (hopefully) be dissected & responded to, but my goal was not to offend, but to hopefully show that some of the typical view of Conservatives are vast generalizations. Here are even a few of my favorite quotes from Barry Goldwater (the father of all Conservatives), a few I'm sure you wouldn't believe came for the Right.

"You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight."

"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives."

"Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have." also attributed to Gerald Ford.