Carthage College to Add Div III Lax

[WheatonFan]

Carthage is adding a Div III Men's lacrosse team.

Will the rest of the College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin be following soon?

Carthage
Augustana
North Central
Wheaton
Elmhurst
Illinois Wesleyan
Millikin
North Park

P.S.

Problem #3
Carthage is hiring for a coach to participate in the "development of men’s and women’s lacrosse teams at the club level progressing to NCAA intercollegiate programs." The listing says they will start at the club level with no time table for advancing to NCAA competition.

Although it is encouraging to see another CCIW team developing a club lacrosse team--especially with the success of Augie and Wheaton--this hardly has any impact on the potential for CCIW lacrosse.

[A.J. Stevens]

You have to understand why a lot of Div III schools would consider adding a sport. It is not decided on by the quality of your club team. It is to fill dorm rooms and increase enrollment. I know for a fact that one of the schools I listed is strongly considering an addition of both men's & womans lacrosse in the next 12 months. Will it happen...not sure. The kicker is that the school does not have a club lax team. I think you will be surprised at how quickly the growth begins once schools don't have to travel 2 states away to get a seasons worth of games. Carthage adding lax is a big step for the area. Also the stronger the club team the less likely they will want to add lacrosse. They already got you to enroll without the need of a varsity team. No small school will hire a full time employee to spend a long period of time at the club level. It's about the money.

[scooter]

any hints to what CCIW team that is?

[beckner11]

I'm just curious for my own knowledge but where do you actually tie in with Wheaton lacrosse, Wheatonfan, since you aren't part of the team and don't speak on their behalf, yet are still talking to school officials in regards to their future....?

[WheatonFan]

my guess would be Augie. They are a very well run program with a coach (Ethan) who is very serious about advancing the sport of lacrosse. They are the most likely of CCIW teams to go D-III and do it well.


Beckner:
I was very involved in getting the Wheaton team off the ground for the 2005 season and a player/captain for both '05 and '06. I'm a senior at Wheaton and not playing because of a history of knee injuries.
My connection to the Wheaton official comes from working closely with the club sports department while organizing and playing in '05 and '06 and doing some driving and home game logistics for the team this season.

I initially put my little disclaimer on my signature because of a post i planned to make after the incredible frustration that came from watching Wheaton play Lake Forest last month.

[A.J. Stevens]

my guess would be Augie. They are a very well run program with a coach (Ethan) who is very serious about advancing the sport of lacrosse. They are the most likely of CCIW teams to go D-III and do it well

Clearly you did not read my last post.

[wheatonlax20]

I am on the current Wheaton team and I do know that as of late several of the CCIW schools have been pushing the conference towards preparing for a move to gaining lacrosse as a spring sport. Although I don't believe that I will see that move in my time as a student here at Wheaton, I believe that in the next 5-8 years the move will happen for the CCIW. At this point, I disagree with A.J. and I don't think it's all about the money, but rather that the conference sees that national growth of lacrosse and wants to be ready to make a move at the right time. I know that title 9 will play a major part in this move and most schools (Wheaton included) will need to get another women's sport before we can gain men's status in the NCAA. As I said, I think this is still 5-8 years off, but it is in the works and we are going to do the best we can to push it forward.

[A.J. Stevens]

Disagree all you want. No school with 2-3000 enrollment is going to spend $100,000 plus annually to add a woman's & men's lax team if it is not going to increase enrollment. Increased enrollment = more tuition revenue. It is about the money. There is nothing wrong with it. I'm glad Midwestern schools are starting to see lax as a way of increasing enrollment. If they are talking about Title IX then they are talking about $.

[WheatonFan]

not carefully enough i guess.

I'm won't argue with any of that. You know the system much better than I do and I really hope you're right and things work out that way. I'd love to see CCIW schools with D-III lacrosse.

[KnoxVegas]

Augustana College, as far as I know, has no plans to add varsity men's or women's lacrosse at this time. That is not to say in the near future (2-5 years) the school will not explore the prospect.

I agree with A.J. that schools add varsity programs to increase enrollment and revenue. An "olympic sport" cannot be added with out some other revenue stream to offset the costs of starting-up and sustaining the added sport. At the Division III level, I doubt that concessions and ticket sales offset the cost of football and basketball (plus the existing and future programs), much less enough to support another varsity program.

[Woodlawn]

Couple questions then -

What is to stop the big schools from going varsity then? Mizzou, Kansas, Illinois.... Can they start at DIII and move up?

What is stopping all the small schools in STL from adding a lacrosse program together? There would be no travel. Missouri Baptist, Maryville, Webster U, SLU, UMSL, Jefferson College, Meramec etc...... add those to Lindenwood and Fontbonne and you've got a season worth of games if you travel once or twice somewhere, especially if these other small schools in Kansas, Arkansas and Illinois go varsity.

[davewiley]

As I recall, the NCAA pushed to get schools completely within a division a few years ago, with a few grandfather-clause cases (Johns Hopkins could stay at D3 overall, but keep their already existing D1 lacrosse programs, if I'm remembering correctly). Such a policy keeps a school from loading up on athletes in one season as D1, and then unleashing them at the D3 level in another season...say, theoretically what one might/did do at Dayton in the 80's, having their "D3" football players throw a shot put once or twice in the spring for the D1 track team on scholarship...the jerks!

So, Missouri, Kansas, Illinois, et al can't come in at the D3 level for lacrosse, they'd have to go at the D1 level, and the bigger budget that goes with it. Next, of the smaller schools, certainly the NCAA D3 ones could go D3 varsity (good explanations of why they don't listed in previous posts), but the NAIA ones are stuck since the NAIA doesn't currently sanction lacrosse (maybe that will change some day). I don't know the affiliations of all the ones you've listed, but MoBap and Lindenwood are NAIA institutions. I do think Fontbonne going D3 this year will help speed things up for NCAA lacrosse in the region, but speeding things up is a relative thing. When I played against Lake Forest's D3 team in the 80's, I couldn't have imagined the state of Illinois wouldn't have a single varsity team in 2007 (or that Michigan State would dump their D1 program...that one still has me scratching my head). Every year the regional lacrosse scene gets bigger (better and more competitive and organized), so who knows what 2012 will hold.

As a side note, my observation out in Kansas is that schools fall into NCAA D2 or NAIA, not D3...not sure why, but certainly not the most conducive arrangement for getting a varsity lacrosse toehold in the state.

[Troy Hood]

Dave:

Your scratching your head about the demise of Michigan State's D1 program still gets my blood boiling even after all this time. I know exactly why it was done: Title IX. When I was at MSU, it was a solid program with an NCAA tournament bid in its recent history.

The schools that Woodlawn mentions all have their own reasons, I'm sure. Yes, Missouri Baptist is part of the NAIA, as are we. There is talk of the NAIA adopting Lacrosse as a sanctioned sport. However, in my opinion, that is very far in the future, if at all. SLU has an MCLA-B team; but, they'd have to come in at D1 if they went NCAA. Webster, Maryville, et al. are in the same boat with Fontbonne. They could go whenever they choose, but, facilities and financial issues would hold them back.