I have some questions about this......?

[LaxC21]

There are plenty of kids who have had the opportunity to go to the east coast and have returned for various reasons (D1 programs cut, personal, education, etc.) or had offers to go east but decided that education was more important.

Again the problem is not talent in Texas...it is organizing the talent and coaching the talent well enough to take advantage of it.

[Rob Graff]

If you don't mind a "Yankee" butting in....
1. We face many of the same problems from the "Gouchers" of the world.

Minnesota is behind y'all in HS lax, but we are growing rapidly. Yet the UMLL coaches are faced with the problem that Danny Hogan identified above - that HS coaches with NO knowledge of the USLIA NOR knowledge of the level of ability/committment needed at a D1/D3 school continue to tell their players to go out of state for the magic letters (NCAA) - IRRESPECTIVE of the education at those institutions. Small school D2 programs are contacting MN kids on a regular basis and trying to convince them to go to their schools for Lax - with no thought as to that student's employability down the road.

At UMD, we've had 2 transfers who've left NCAA programs (1 after a season at Medaille in Buffalo, one after fall ball at Wooster) once they realized that these institutions were not for them - either academically or socially.

I have supported the unique athlete that is ready to go D1/D2/D3 from Minnesota, but they are rarer than MN HS coaches think.

2. LSA - will rise again. I've had the pleasure to meet Noah Fink, Tony S and Karl Lynch. All three are quality coaches, turning out quality players. I have no doubt that this "hiccup" will prove to be a dim memory soon.

[ACE]

From Laxpower recruiting for 2004-2005....

There were 31 matches for players from the State of Texas. 19 of those went to NCAA schools, 5 to Lindenwood, 2 to Missouri, one each to Sonoma, Colorado State, Arizona, Houston, and SMU. I know that only accounts for players submitted to Laxpower, but 2 of 31 stayed in Texas. And we let 10 go out of state to other USLIA schools. I think this shows that there is a significant number of players leaving Texas.

I coach at a private school. I know the mindset of these kids. They want to go away to college and except for a few don't want to attend a state school. The top players for the most part in Texas are from private schools and are leaving the state. For the most part these guys are going to top NCAA schools. But there are plenty of other quality athletes that we need to keep here in state and not let them attend some noname school just because they have D3 lacrosse there. We need to do a better job of showing them that USLIA lacrosse is just as good as any middle of the road D3 school, plus you get a better college experience.

[ACE]

As for this year, I do think part of it is the quality players leaving the state. But I also believe that the top LSA teams have just hit a low point after having quite a few successful years (A&M especially). I think the LSA as a whole has gotten better, we're just seeing the top teams down a bit. I contribute this mostly to the inexperience of the younger players. I think the younger players A&M has this season has led them to be inconsistent and got in a little over their head in scheduling. But they do have talent and athleticism. I think they need to hit the wall a bit more, but give them a few years. High school lacrosse is booming so much that you're seeing freshman come in and be better than the older guys, leading to the inexperience. Once these guys get into the system and start playing team ball, the athletic ability is there and the LSA teams will take off again. Like Dustin was saying, for example, A&M has much better athletes than what we had 5 years ago. I think we just played better team ball then. They just have to get to doing that and the athletic ability will take over and make for a much better ballclub.

[lax]

I did some quick research:

On the Top 10 teams in Division 1 NCAA
there are a grand total of 7 players from Texas:

James Wilson, Greg Clement - NAVY
William Wolcott (played in 1 game in 2 yrs), Rob Wellington- DUKE
Josh Pico (from TX but went to prep school at St. Lawrence in NJ) - JHU
Drew Webb- CORNELL
Jim Weiss- PRINCETON
None- UVA, SYRACUSE, UNC, MARYLAND, TOWSON

Thats a poor representation from Texas, a state that has a population of 21 million, that is more than Washington DC, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware and New Jersey combined. (20 million total)

Now don't get me wrong, I am a big advocate of Texas lacrosse and its growth, but you people have to realize how far away this state is from developing top of the notch lacrosse players. You are all right- in a sense that up north, elementary school kids are playing lacrosse and by the time they reach even the Fresh/Soph level in high school, their coaches are current star payers in the MLL (as was the case at my high school). Lacrosse is in people's blood up there and despite the fact that Texas has better all-around athletes, it will be years if not decades before you see lots of kids from Texas on top D1 teams.

[Campbell]

Has anyone read the article in the new Lacrosse magazine about scholarship money for NCAA lacrosse programs? I found it interesting and somewhat relevant to this discussion. I dont have the exact numbers in front of me but the author of the article, an NCAA women's coach, stated that most programs have enough money to hand out about 12 full scholarships to their players. That means many players are going without scholarships or are getting only a portion of that money to offset some of their tution. The rest of the money to support the team, I imagine, is coming through fundraising or out of pocket.

I see this as information that is good for young players to know since they will be competing nationally for these scholarships and without them they face high out of state tuition costs coupled with high out of pocket expenses to play for these teams. Now maybe for private school students who have that kind of money it is not an issue, but I think there is as much talent coming out of public schools in TX as there is at the private schools.

I agree wholeheartedly with Karl's initial post that the LSA is growing and still moving forward. It takes time to build these programs. Schools like TAMU, TTU, and UT have been doing it a little longer than some of us, but we are moving in the right direction. I dont think one bad year, half way through the season mind you, is a good reflection of the LSA's performance. As programs in the conference expand and bring in or visit more OOC teams the LSA as a whole will grow and attract the high school talent from in state as well as out of state. Especially since we have some of the top univeristies in the country academically.

John Campbell
Head Coach
TSU Lacrosse

[Danny Hogan]

i think 7 players on top 10 teams would be a positive statement of how far lax in texas has come. i doubt most of the programs they came from have been around more than 15 years.

[Brent Burns]

I am joining Karl as one of the eternal optimist about the future of LSA. Kudos to jessexy for starting this healthy, productive discourse of LSA, yet we all need to be mindful that this problem is also vexing other conferences in USL MDIA per Danny Hogan and Rob Graff.

I have only seen two LSA games so far- Baylor-Texas and Baylor-SMU. Comparing to other years before, I can see a lot of talent out there on the Baylor, Texas and SMU teams. I am really looking foward and hoping to catch the A&M-Baylor and Tech-Baylor games in a couple of weeks to get a hold of more talent out on that field.

I was a student at Gallaudet University, and I vividly remember writing a letter to the Lacrosse Magazine editor that I would love to see lacrosse grow in Texas. At that time, it was 1981 or 1982 when I was receiving Lacrosse Magazine. Of course, I was not very familiar with the lacrosse establishment in Texas back then, and I was just that idealistic kid dreaming of seeing lacrosse grow leaps and bounds in Texas. That was when I moved to Houston from Rochester, NY with my family. When I moved back to Texas again from Massachusetts in 1993, the first thing I did was to find out about Baylor lax games because I wanted to do something to be part of the folks promoting lacrosse and see it grow exponentially in Texas.

Growing pains? Yes, we will live with that every year. Naysayers? We will simply ignore them and march on knowing we are going to get better and stronger. Hey, look at Karl Lynch, Tony Scazzero and Mike Ormsby are from New York and are doing a lot to promote LSA and growth of lacrosse in Texas. You can see that they are not going to back down from other HS coaches who thinks otherwise of LSA. I learned a little bit about John Campbell, Texas State University head coach. He graduated from a high school in Hewitt, Texas and moved back to Texas from Maryland. Look at what he has done with the Texas State program.

Echoing what Karl said at the beginning of his post, I am very optimistic about LSA's future. I am really proud to be part of LSA and will continue to throw in my support. If anyone wanting to know, I really never played lacrosse. I was just that kid who would jump on my bike to ride over to watch Irondequoit (NY) High School lax games. I am now that adult who would root for any Texas team not only because I have been living in TX for 12 years, but I do recognize potential and tremendous talent in Texas high school and college laxers.

[Karl Lynch]

On the Top 10 teams in Division 1 NCAA
there are a grand total of 7 players from Texas:

You missed two very important players:

OSU - Nolan - starter Under 19 team.
Butler - Crimmons (captain)

Kid from here made it as walk-on on Syracuse couple years back. Don't remember his name.

Thats a poor representation from Texas, a state that has a population of 21 million, that is more than Washington DC, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware and New Jersey combined. (20 million total)

We do not have poor representation by comparison to other states. Once you factor in age of programs, number of participants, and number of programs, we are light years ahead of these states.

[Sonny]

Has anyone read the article in the new Lacrosse magazine about scholarship money for NCAA lacrosse programs? I found it interesting and somewhat relevant to this discussion. I dont have the exact numbers in front of me but the author of the article, an NCAA women's coach, stated that most programs have enough money to hand out about 12 full scholarships to their players. That means many players are going without scholarships or are getting only a portion of that money to offset some of their tution. The rest of the money to support the team, I imagine, is coming through fundraising or out of pocket.

I read that article. It was very informative.

Most varsity schools fully support the team (fields, uniforms, equipment, paid coaches, etc.). But they do not pay for 100% tuition for all of the players on the team. As noted in the article, they divide the scholarship money they are alloted by their respective institution. Some guys get 1/4, 1/3, or 1/2 of a full scholarship. Some guys only get books covered. Only the top rated blue chip recruits get a full ride. Parental financial support and/or financial aid will have to fill in the difference when a player doesn't get a full scholarship to play varsity NCAA lacrosse.

If NCAA Div. 1 (men's lacrosse) allows 12.6 scholarships for a roster of 30 - 40 players, you can do the math quite easily. And that is only if the school in question allocates the program 12.6 full scholarships. Many schools do not, providing a lesser amount or a fixed budget amount.

Bottomline: The picture for varsity lacrosse isn't a rosy as many make it out to be. Equal, if not better, academic opportunities closer to home makes MDIA ball all the more compelling. Overall, the coaching and the organization needs to rise up to continue to attract better players.

[Campbell]

I did some quick research:

On the Top 10 teams in Division 1 NCAA
there are a grand total of 7 players from Texas:

Thats a poor representation from Texas, a state that has a population of 21 million, that is more than Washington DC, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware and New Jersey combined. (20 million total)

This is a bad comparison. I did a quick glance through of the top ten rosters and there are only 5 players from CO, 6 from CA and 2 from UT in the top ten. It is hard to argue that lacrosse isn't doing well in those states. All of these D-I schools are primarily represented by players from NJ, NY, MD/DC, VA, and DE. If you are going to make that argument you could say the same for Ohio, NC, PA, etc... So I would say given the age of most programs in TX, as Karl pointed out, we are doing pretty good.

[ACE]

Lax,
I don't think this discussion is about the overall recruitment of players to top notch NCAA programs. It's about the level of play in the LSA this season. The point is that if we kept those players here in state that would make for 1 or 2 if not more impact players every season for every team. Also, seeing 20 players going to NCAA schools is an increase and is significantly larger than the 2 or 3 players that would go several years ago. We're not trying to make Texas out to be the lacrosse hotbed of the US. That's only in your imagination. There are only 60-70 teams playing lacrosse in the whole state, 25 of which are D1 programs. That makes 40+ programs that are D2 or new most of which are new within the last 5 years. But lacrosse is growing fast. I coach a D2 team and we're at the top of D2 this year and this is only our 3rd year to even play lacrosse. We have some quality athletes turning into good lacrosse players. Maybe it will be a decade or more before we are churning out D1 players every year, maybe more. Bottom line is Texas high school lacrosse is booming and if we can keep these kids in state like Cali is doing, the LSA will rise to the top before you know it.

[LaxC21]

2005-2006 Recruits:

Hammill, Joe Austin TX Austin/Lehigh TX Denver
Lassiter, Drew Dallas TX St. Mark's TX Pennsylvania
Gilligan, Nick Woodlands TX Woodlands TX Amherst
Wood, Ben Dallas TX Episcopal School TX Gettysburg
Covey, Eric San Antonio TX St. Anthony Catholic TX Denver
Jacobs, Scott Dallas TX St. Mark's TX Penn State
Fritts, Matthew Dallas TX Highland Park TX Villanova
Ballay, Mat Houston TX Woodlands TX Ohio State

There are more than this (the HS website is currently down)...because I saw at least three more kids being recruited by Ohio State and I believe there are a few kids being recruited out of ESD (Dallas) to go play. Considering HS lacrosse is not even a varsity sport in Texas...this is very impressive. I could continue on about all the kids over the last 8 years who went on to play D1, D2, D3 at top schools...but you get my point.

[PigPen]

I can't believe that no one has brought this up-or maybe they did and I missed it. The parity in this year's LSA, in my opinion, has water down the talent. Tech beat A&M , SMU beat UT, Tech vs, UT (would have been a nice one), the list goes on. With everyone being so even, I don't think that one team is loaded completely. Much the same way the C21 stated, I think the LSA powers of the past had great teams. A&M had a couple of studs, but the team is what won games for them. UT went to STL with a good team, no superstars. Common thread-team concept, maybe 5-10 above average players playing the system on the same page.

I agree with a lot of the comments-being an ex h.s coach in TX (grew up in NY-Mike, Section 1 RULES!) and having played at A&M, I kind see it from a pretty objective prespective. Yes-there are lot of studs that are leaving the state. That mentality of the USLIA being inferior is there. I won't name names, but anyone that played h.s ball in the state can name the big coaches, and how they feel about the USLIA vs. NCAA. I think Danny boy hit the nail right on with his comment about DII. I find it interesting that Mike plugged USLIA ball while at Clear Lake, but he's also the U of h coach. See the connection. I think that h.s. coaches that don't knwo the league look at it like a three headed alien. As the homegrownerns return to coach, I see that trend changing.

The formula that I have seen in the USLIA for success in USLIA (aka National Title) is to have talent good enough to play with confidence two-deep and have a super stud (aka a guy that should have, or probably played Varsity NCAA ball and for some reason would up at a USLIA school). There is talent in the LSA, but can everyone's second lines (A-M-D) run and be counted on to produce, like let;s say CSU's or UCSB's?

Point being-the parity this year is good for the league within the league, but bad for the league on a national scale.

[OldBalls]

First of all...how many other states can say that the President of the free world is from their little hole in the wall of a state?

Second of all, I think that players that stay in Texas (and LSA schools) have other things that are more important to them than their lacrosse future. Most of them know that their lacrosse isn't going to get them a six figure salary someday...that business degree or whatever looks like a much more viable option than lacrosse. People that stay in state are (for the most part) looking for an education and a good experience in college and lacrosse is a part of that. People, for the most part, down here just aren't commited to making lacrosse the #1 thing in their life; that shows when we go out of state.

It isn't a valid argument to say that all of the good players are going out of state to DI schools. That is an excuse. The bottom line is coaching and commitment.