UWSP not playing out of conference games this year?

[Rob Graff]

I no longer see B as a demotion, but a growing division of MCLA, which offers greater exposer through out the country. I do not think that UST would be where we are today with out the split. We are and will for a very long time be a B team. Division B is making gigantic leaps annually and I do not think anyone sees it as a developmental division. I am proud to be part of B and watch as teams around the country build their programs and continue to legitimize the B ranks!

Well spoken.

[BB]

My point was that the UMLL could have altered the language in their own by-laws to fit the area and colleges.

[msum26]

I would strongly agree with Mr. Moosbrugger. I have been with MSU Moorhead for the past four years. Since we applied to move down to B division the whole attitude around our campus and team has changed. The incoming rookies and veterens like myself are excitied to be able to compete competitively. Unlike the prior years when we were in A and the game would be over in the first quarter. I think the B Division is awesome and in no way what so ever see it as a devlopmental league. It is perfect for schools like Moorhead, etc.

just my thoughts

Corey Samora
MSU Moorhead Board Member

[Joe_Foster]

ahh... I remember the day at Rob Graff's law firm downtown where we had to decide the A/B split. I went into the meeting thinking of "b" as something that would dissolve our team. I remember looking across the conference table at St. Johns (and everyone else) fight to stay in "a". I can only imagine how that made Dan Genck feel at the time of that. He was a senior with no championship to play for in the UMLL-B. As board members and presidents of each team were mostly upperclassmen, that was a haunting thought for us to face. In retrospect, I envy St. John's. They did not accept that move at the meeting, and were very bitter. But, come spring, that all healed and they made the most of the season, and if I recall, beating 2 "a" teams. There are teams in the UMLL that are going to be borderline A/B, but ultimately which league is going to help develop their program? From my perspective at MSU-Moorhead, clearly "B" would have been the move. Hindsight is 20/20.

[Pinball]

I think one change that needs to happen is to change the name of the league. Growing up in youth sports- "A" was the good team and "B" was the bad/developmental team, all across sports that is what it is. When you try to explain to you uneducated fan/parent/recruit I still think it comes across as A is the good teams and B is the bad teams. In UMLL/MCLA lacrosse that is not true.

What would be so wrong with going with Division 1 and Division 2 or 3? So what it is similar to NCAA, but isn't that who we are emulating/using their rules. Club rugby uses a number system.

In the next 5 years as minnesota/wisconsin youth lax develops i hope that the larger public schools will be able to be competitive across the board (SCSU, Kato, UMD, UM, UND etc) basically if you have D1 or D2 sports you should be in Division A and D3 without a doubt should be in Division B. I would hope that the B Div could look similar to the MIAC with few stragglers thrown in (Moorhead, UWEC+other Wisc schools, NDSU, etc).

[msum26]

very well stated pinball.

i totally agree with that statement. all throughout sports a is good and b is bad or of lesser quality. obviously that/this is not the case in the UMLL.
but i would totally agree with the number system.



Corey Samora
MSU-Moorhead Board Member

[Champ]

1,2 and 3 are less indicative of good/bad than a, b and c?

[Pinball]

1,2 and 3 are less indicative of good/bad than a, b and c?

Yep, think of the sterotypes behind getting put on the "b" team in squirts

[laxguru41]

Yep, think of the sterotypes behind getting put on the "b" team in squirts

That's only because you grew up in Minnesota playing hockey.

[Moose]

I would very much be in support of a re-name to MCLA Division I and MCLA Division II. But in the end it really is just a name. I do not think there needs to be a "shake up" among the conference. I am against movement among the divisons. Every team is going to have its years of plenty and years of not enough, we should not get into moving divisions according to this. Obviously if a team is in A and really should not be and B is a better fit, much like Moorehead than the move is a good one and benefits the league as a whole.

[Rob Graff]

Pete is correct, and properly speaking as the UMLL President.

Movement is not a reaction to a bad year or a good one.

Movement - if any - is the result of a trend over SEASONS, a desire to move, compliance with the MCLA rules (for example, when/if Univ. NoDak goes D1 in football, they will be an A team) as well as concurrence among the teams attending the league meetings.

Rob

[DwinsChamps]

I agree that movement should be the result of trends, and I would say that St. Thomas and St. John's have proven themselves worthy of competing in the A division and have created a disparity within the B division that would warrant such a move. Just as Marquette and St. Olaf have shown an inablility to be competitive in the A division. This is not based on a single year's observation.

Neither the strong nor weak teams benefit from the disparities in our league. How does UMD benefit from playing Mankato...or St. John's from NDSU?

It is obvious to me that the competition within each division of the UMLL would increase if a four team switch were to occur. And Coach Moosbrugger, you say that the league benefitted from Moorehead's descent. How are St. Olaf and Marquette any different than Moorehead? What is the league's goal if it isn't to keep competition high?

[Rob Graff]

Mike,

FIrst, you are entitled to your opinion, but I think it's premised on a belief that Division B is for "less skilled teams" - and its not - at least its not here.

Second, Your comment about Marquette is misplaced. Marquette took a year off last year. And 2 years before that it was pegged by many to be one of the top 3 teams in the conference. This fall it beat UofM and pushed UMD hard in fall ball. Marquette travelled to the SELC and played tough competition. They are Division 1 in basketball. They just don't have a football team. They draw from some of the best lax schools in the Chicago area, as well as from the MPLS area.

Third, St. Olaf has traditionally been in the top of the UMLL A. Last season, they finished 4th, behind UMD/UofM/St.Cloud. They won their first round playoff game. They are NOT a "bottom dweller". Here is the link to the playoff seeding for 2006 per www.UMLL.org http://www.umll.org/2006/playoffs.cfm NOte that the seeding has them 3rd, when it should have been 4th per the standings.

Any disparities in our league are not the result of "gerrymandering" teams. And your suggestion to ghettoize the "B" division rather than helping it become a functional league is contrary to the way that the B division is run at the UMLL, and the way that the B division is run in the majority (But not all) of the other conferences.

Rob

[DwinsChamps]

Rob,

Thank you for your response.

I'm still not sold on Marquette. I witnessed their fall game against the UofM and saw Marquette play for the win while the U played their entire team, especially back-up's. This spring was a legitimate game, with Marquette losing to UofM team that was unsatisfied with their gameplay. Nevertheless, if we were to substitute St. Olaf and Marquette with Iowa St. or Mankato and UW-Steven's Point, then a move seems justifiable.

Especially considering that St. Thomas and St. John's have a combined, what, 16-0 record vs. the other UMLL-B teams in the last two seasons? A swap of these teams would not "ghettoize" the UMLL-B, as you like to say, but create a competitive league with a good season, as opposed to a two-horse conference race intended to make St. Thomas/St. John's look as good as possible on a national scale. If anything, a move of such proportions would enable the UMLL-B to become a functional league.

[msum26]

Rob has made the point crystal clear


sorry mike Iowa st. could not move to be being that they have a division one football team. Stevens point as i recall were one of the top teams in the umll two years ago. There will always be descrepencies in where teams should be but aligning with pete the umll b and a both benefitted with our desecent to the b.

just my thoughts


Corey Samora
MSU-Moorhead Board Member