UWSP not playing out of conference games this year?

by **Dylan Dickey** on Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:36 pm

Just looking through UMLL team schedules and noticed UWSP doesn't have any out of conference games one their mcla.us schedule. What's the word with that?

**Sponsor**

by **Rob Graff** on Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:26 pm

They have been put on notice of the UMLL bylaws requiring such, and the penalty for non-compliance.

Rob

by **JerzWB** on Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:56 pm

Just out of curiosity, what does the UMLL require? And is that pretty standard for all leagues / conferences?

by **Rob Graff** on Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:06 pm

I'm summarizing, but "A" teams must have 3 OOC games and "B" teams must have 2 OOC's to be eligible for the end of season tournament.

Rob

by **Joe** on Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:32 pm

This brings up another point I've been pondering for a while. What happened to the rule that every "A" team must play a "B" division team in their conference?

Also, after seeing both St. Thomas and St. John's in the top of the B division polls for these past two season (I want to say more but I have a terrible memory), why haven't either of these teams moved up to the A division?

by **JerzWB** on Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:46 pm

Both St John's and St Thomas are "King of the Hill" right now and are not required to move up. They are (arguably) the best two teams in Div. B. Now that there is a division B national tournament, they can become national champions, something they could not do in the A div. (at least not right now with the strength of the top 25 A teams). Personally I would want to play in the top division but why would they? If they moved up right now, sure they would win most of their UMLL conference games and be competitive against the RMLC and WCLL ect. but until they beat an established A team (like when San Diego beat an amazing UCSD team last year), I don't see them wanting to leave.

by **laxguru41** on Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:50 pm

This brings up another point I've been pondering for a while. What happened to the rule that every "A" team must play a "B" division team in their conference?

Also, after seeing both St. Thomas and St. John's in the top of the B division polls for these past two season (I want to say more but I have a terrible memory), why haven't either of these teams moved up to the A division?

The rule that every "A" team must play a "B" team was amended at the league meeting. Therefore teams in the different divisions are not required to play each other, but can if they wish to.

As for St. Thomas and St. Johns moving up, they are both relatively small schools who are content to contend for a national championship in the B division. They are not required to move up regardless of how good they are or could be. Also there have been rumors of St. Johns going D3 in lacrosse in the not so distant future.

Hope this helps.

by **Rob Graff** on Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:19 pm

This goes back to what Division B is for/about.

At the UMLL, we look at the B Division as a legitimate end unto itself, where smaller enrollment schools can compete for a national championship on a level playing field. IMHO, that is what division B should be - it should not be viewed as developmental league for teams just starting out.

As an analogy, you don't see Division 3 teams trying to "move up" to Division 1 in NCAA - why should we force that upon MCLA teams? But also note that Division 1 has teams like JHU, Providence and other smaller schools - It comes down to school choice.

In fact, I see most (but not all) conferences viewing Division B that way. From an observer's point of view - the PNCLL and the GRLC certainly look at Division B in that manner. And I believe that the SELC does as well.

by **DanGenck** on Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:59 pm

With what is being said in mind, why does St. Olaf not move to Division B? Their traditional rivals are all there and their size would match the other teams in the division.

Thoughts?

by **DwinsChamps** on Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:02 pm

DanGenck wrote:With what is being said in mind, why does St. Olaf not move to Division B? Their traditional rivals are all there and their size would match the other teams in the division.

Thoughts?

After seeing them play last spring, I would have to agree with you. Adding St. Olaf, and perhaps Marquette, to the Div. B would bring a new dynamic and added depth to our conference.

Not to mention, knowing some of their players I would say they'd prefer to play a competitive Div. B schedule over an overwhelming A schedule. This is why I believe the UMLL would benefit from a shake-up. In my opinion, after UMD and UofM, there's a large talent drop-off...precisely why the UMLL isn't viewed as a top conference nationally. If St. Thomas and St. John's both moved up, within five years I'd think they'd be very competitive within the A division, and both divisions of the UMLL would be balanced.

by **Dulax31** on Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:17 am

I have played in this league for quite a while, I saw the league split to the A/B division. If my memory holds true, St. John's / St. Thomas were not very talented when we decided to split A/B, but because of great coaching / recruiting, these programs have become very skilled/competitive.

I don't think many people realize this but Minn-Duluth, St. Cloud, Wisc Steven's point, Mankato, Etc. play UP to the A division. They could rightfully play in the B division also, but when we made the split, these teams were the most talented/skilled and wanted to play in a more competitive division. Now, times have changed and there is lopsided divisions, A and B, with 2-3 teams leading the way.

Our conference seems to be pretty unique when it comes to the rules of how to split the teams; we do not have many universities in our area that have D1 football teams. In fact only 2 teams to my knowledge actually have to play up to A (Minnesota and Iowa State).

I honestly don't know what the "answer" is to this situation, but I would love to see the conferences split more equally when it comes to the talent / skill teams have. Honestly, I would love to see St. John's and St. Thomas move up to the A division EVENTUALLY like Claremont and San Diego have chosen to do.

by **Johnnielax13** on Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:25 pm

I was playing for St. John's when the A/B split happened. At the time we took it as an insult (mistakenly), but we did have a terrible year the previous season, and an even worse year before that. I think the split was necessary, and the way that the UMLL split the league was great. Initially we thought we had been relegated to a developmental league. After playing some out of conference games, we came to realize that it wasn't developmental, that there were some great teams out there. I seem to remember talk about moving teams within the UMLL up and down each year, based on how they finished the season (I don't know if it was ever a serious thought). I believe that thought came from the perception that teams wouldn't be happy playing in the B division. I think it would be difficult to find a player or Alum from UST or SJU who would say that they wish they played in the A division.

Do I think that SJU and UST could compete in the A division? Of course I do, I think they would be around 3rd and 4th in the UMLL. But would they be a #1, or #2? Not for years (but maybe someday). I don't foresee either team requesting to move up for at least a couple of seasons.

And to the rumors that SJU wants to go to DIII? I think they have the best chance of any MIAC school, just because of Title IX. I don't know about the rest of the larger schools in the UMLL. And while they might be hoping to go to DIII, I think it will take a few years to put together a serious proposal.

If they do go DIII it will be unfortunate that they are no longer able to play in the MCLA. This league is great. It is organized and fun to be a part of. I think the NCAA is such a huge entity, it is hard to feel like you are a part of it.

by BB on Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:45 pm

Why did the board decide that it was just Div. 1 football to be an A school?

Maybe in MN the trade off should be D I football, or DI Hockey (Duluth,SCSU,Mankato etc...) or DI Basketball, why limit it to football, which may make sense in the rest of the country.

That would keep things similar to the way they are!!

by **Jolly Roger** on Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:53 pm

BB wrote:Why did the board decide that it was just Div. 1 football to be an A school?

That standard is a national mandate, not a UMLL one. And it's Division 1A football.

by **Moose** on Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:55 pm

Much like SJU it was hard to swallow a few years back when the split was made. But then UST was not very talented. I too in the beginning saw the demotion to the B ranks as a slap in the face, especially with our history of competitive lax. We for sure deserved to be placed in B though. I no longer see B as a demotion, but a growing division of MCLA, which offers greater exposer through out the country. I do not think that UST would be where we are today with out the split. We are and will for a very long time be a B team. Division B is making gigantic leaps annually and I do not think anyone sees it as a developmental division. I am proud to be part of B and watch as teams around the country build their programs and continue to legitimize the B ranks!