Division B Top 25 Results: 3/7 to 3/20

[Brew26]

Rank...Team..................Results............................Record.....Top 25 W/L

1........St. Thomas..........W Dordt 9-0........................3-0........... 2/0

2........St. Johns.............W #17Southwestern 11-2.....6-0........... 4/0
....................................W #12Augustana 20-3
....................................W Carnegie Mellon 16-11

3........Montana...............L Simon Frasier 13-21.........4-2............1/0
....................................W #10Western Washington 10-9
....................................W Lewis and Clark 23-2
....................................W Willamette 19-5

4.......Westminster.........W #15Montana St 16-6.........9-1............3/0

5.......UVSC..................W Utah State 15-7................4-0............1/0

6.......Dayton................Game canceled (Oakland).....2-0............0/0

7.......Harding...............No Games............................4-1............1/1

8.......Emory.................L Stonehill 8-9......................7-1............2/0

9.......North Colorado....W #11Fort Lewis 13-7............5-3............2/3

10.....West Washington..L #3Montana 9-10.................5-2............2/2
..................................W#20 South Oregon 10-5

11.....Fort Lewis............L #9North Colorado 7-13........2-2............0/1

12.....Augustana...........L #17Southwestern 3-4..........0-3.............0/2
...................................L Carnegie Mellon 15-6
...................................L St. Johns 20-3

13.....Calvin.................W Taylor 13-5.......................1-2..............0/2

14.....Eckerd................W #23 Salem St 10-2.............6-1.............1/1
..................................W NYU 14-10

15.....Montana St..........L #4Westminster 6-16............1-1.............0/1

16.....PLU.....................No Games.............................4-1.............0/1

17.....Southwestern.......W #12Augustana 4-3.............5-3.............1/1
...................................L #2St. Johns 2-11
...................................W Carnegie Mellon 6-4

18.....UC Irvine.............W Biola 5-4...........................4-4.............0/2
....................................L Col sch of Mines 11-12

19.....Elon.....................L Wake Forest 5-8.................0-3.............0/1

20.....South Oregon.......W Willamette 27-1.................7-4.............0/1
...................................W Linfield 21-5
...................................L #10 West Wash 5-10
...................................W Lewis and Clark 20-5

21.....SCAD..................W Citadel 25-1......................3-4..............1/1
...................................L Virgina Tech 13-5

22.....Creighton............W Northwestern 16-1..............1-0.............0/0

23.....Salem St.............L #14Eckerd 2-10...................1-1.............0/1
..................................W South Florida 11-10

24.....Northern Mich......No Games..............................2-0.............0/0

25.....Appalachian St....No Games...............................1-1.............0/0

Just wondering what people were thinking about this next poll. I could see Westminster moving into the top 3 which would be pretty close between the three and Montana moving back a place or two. Also, where does Augustana deserve to go? And i could see Southern Oregon and SCAD moving up into the top 15. Also, Carnegie Mellon had a very good showing and could see them move at least into the 20 spot or even higher in the rankings. Food for thought.

[vaflyer]

Dayton beat Miami U (CCLA-A) 7-4. Score is listed at mcla.us

[ktrost58]

Brew26-
There are a couple of things that i just don't understand from your post. Why on earth would Southern Oregon move up into the top 15? They lost to the only ranked team they played this week 10-5, and beat 3 teams that didn't even give them a game. (no offense to those 3 teams). Losing by 5 to the #10 team in the poll doesn't constitute a move up in the poll, if they are lucky, they will stay where they are at 20.
As far as SCAD moving up, they blew out a team they should blow out and lost to VT. How do you see them cracking the top 15 from that showing?
Now on your question about Augustana, they went 0-3 this week including a blowout to an unranked team. They had a great run last year, but if they are still ranked in the top 25, i would be very surprised.

[Brew26]

I was just trying to get some convo on the lower end of the top 25. Here is my reasoning. Southern Oregon had 3 early losses to A teams. They have beaten everyone they were supposed to and by a large amount. They lost by 5 to the #10 team which #16 PLU lost to by 9. #17 Southwestern should stay in that same area. #18 Irvine lost to an unranked team and barely beat another unranked team. #19 Elon lost to #21 SCAD who is ranked below Southern Oregon. Also, Western Washington lost to the #3 team by 1. Then, Augustana is probably going to be moved out of the top 20, and that is another spot. So, if you go by the scores, I dont think its that hard to put them up around the top 15. For SCAD they should move at least into the top 20 beating Elon.

[ktrost58]

I see your points, I just hate to make dramatic jumps in the polls for teams that havn't really done anything to desirve a jump, its feels like we would be rewarding mediocraty. Why would we want Sothern Oregon to move up when they only beat teams they should beat, and get beaten pretty soundly by teams in front of them. For me, if you want to be in the top 15, you have to play the #10 team better than they did. On another point, i don't know if western at #10 only losing to #3 Montana by only one is as impressive as it looks on paper. Montana really hasn't done anything this year that has been to impressive, and if you ask me, Westminster should move ahead of them for sure. Westminster is a very scary team, wouldn't want to see them at nationals!

[woulax4]

Number 25 is actually Western Oregon University who beat Willamette University 24-2 then beat Albertsons College 16-5 which puts them at 4-1 overall and 0-1 against top 25 teams.

[Brew26]

Sorry about that. Thanks for fixing it.

[Tyler Baumann]

I see your points, I just hate to make dramatic jumps in the polls for teams that havn't really done anything to desirve a jump, its feels like we would be rewarding mediocraty. Why would we want Sothern Oregon to move up when they only beat teams they should beat, and get beaten pretty soundly by teams in front of them. For me, if you want to be in the top 15, you have to play the #10 team better than they did. On another point, i don't know if western at #10 only losing to #3 Montana by only one is as impressive as it looks on paper. Montana really hasn't done anything this year that has been to impressive, and if you ask me, Westminster should move ahead of them for sure. Westminster is a very scary team, wouldn't want to see them at nationals!

I agree I don't think we should move up dramatically, but for you to say we got beat soundly just shows that you don't have any first hand knowledge of our program. During the W. Washington and S. Oregon game, we had 8 minutes of penalties that game to their 2 min, 8 MIN being man down!!! W. Washington has a GREAT program this year, and after the game I was very thankful that it was even that close. The Vikings are a very well coached team and have a lot of skill and showed that they should be ranked higher by taking Montana to OT. With that said I don't think anyone on either side of the ball would say the victory was easy, it was a battle on both ends of the field. Our other losses came to Cal Berkley (who just beat cal poly) and UC Davis (a team making a nice run and looking to make a repeat appearance in the playoffs), and even in those games for being a small "B" team with a roster maxing out at 16 players we still kept the games respectable. Our only loss to a "B" team this year was to W. Washington, so I am not sure what other teams that we lost to this year we were suppossed to beat. I do agree that we still have a lot to prove, before we should move up any higher than our current ranking.

[ktrost58]

It is true that people around the country do not have first hand knowledge of most programs, only those that are local to them. For me, a 10-5 score is not considered a very close game. There are always factors that play into every game that make it closer than it looks, or closer than it really was. I am a huge supporter of small schools with small squads competing with bigger programs and doing well, my whole point was i don't agree with a team moving up at least 6 spots without beating anyone in front of them, and it sounds like you agreed with that point. Good luck to your team and your league!

[Kyle Berggren]

Kevin, what if they're in the wrong spot?

We try to adjust our polls, but this is probably what I would consider the last early poll (#3 I believe), some teams are still getting started. What if voters over looked a team, & need to move them up? SOU at 20 was too low. I was in Dallas last year, I believe the entire MCLA B has improved as a whole, but SOU definately wouldn't have finished last in that grouping. They could have beaten a handful of those teams.

The big question, & I don't know if it will happen but when Montana, UVSC, WWU, & Montana State meet what do we do with an upset? We adjust the poll! We move a team up five spots, MSU could enter the top 10. Polls are fluid, adjusting, & especially early, they're flawed. I wouldn't have any issues at all if a team moved 5 spots in this poll without beating anyone above them. Maybe teams lost ahead of them, maybe we were simply wrong & overlooked them... There's lots of reasons at this point to jump teams at this point,

[Mark Brown]

I'm obviously biased but I think your argument is lacking. UVSC only beat an un-ranked NAU by 1 ( I put them in my top 25) but you are holding it against #3 Montana and #10 WWU for a 1 goal game???? #14 Eckerd lost to #8 Emory by 11. #11 Ft. Lewis lost to #9 UNC by 6. Just something to think about...

[asulax]

emory beat eckerd not elon, elon is 0-3

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

Kevin, what if they're in the wrong spot?

I don't often say this. . .but Kyle, you are exactly right. It's not about how many spots you move a team, it's about where you place them relative to the teams around them. . .and if you get new information, be it in a close loss, a huge win, an OT game vs. a terrible team. . .you have to take that information and make adjustments.

Example: Westminster hasn't beat any of the other top-5 teams, and for most pollsters they weren't in the top-15 at the start of the season. Now they are in the top-5 because we all now see how good they are. St. Thomas and St. John's haven't lost, but I have Westminster at #1 in my poll now. It's a judgement call, and I make that judgement based upon ALL of the data.

Teams like Dayton and Southern Oregon were not expected to be top-10 programs this season (at least not by me), but they are both playing like it and deserve consideration for the top half of the charts, despite where they might have been in a meaningless pre-season poll.

These next two weekends are going to really clear up the picture, with some serious B division monsters colliding. . .like Montana, WWU, UVSC and Montana State in a round robin in Missoula in two weeks.