Historic 2008 Election?

[Brent Burns]

Guess I'm old because the discussions above are quite a doozy, but I can't help because I'm trying to recall the famous person, a guy, who was once a rebel in the 1960's, graduated from Brandeis University (I think), and later became part of the corporate world years later, yet he retained some of his 1960's counterculture thinking. I believe he passed away several years ago. Of course, his name has nothing to do with this thread, but the most recent discussions made me think of that person. What was his name if any of you recall?

Abbie Hoffman? That name just popped up in my mind as I kept mouthing the words, "A..Ab..Abbie..."

Yep, that's him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbie_Hoffman

[Sonny]

Isn't the great Flip Naumberg a former love child or hippynick or something?

What does Flip have to do with a Presidential Candidate?

[Adam Gamradt]

I'm sighting him as an example of a very effective leader, who may or may not have experimented with drugs.

[Hackalicious]

And no one is slandering his name. These are legitimate concerns since he is already in the public arena and is annoucing his candidacy for the White House. If he changed his name from a Muslim name and attended a Muslim school, I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that the general US public would like to learn those factoids, if true, in the post 9/11 environment.

For the record, Insight Magazine stands by their sources. He can expect far worse scrutiny from the public, the tradional mainstream press, & the bloggers should he earn the Democractic Nomination.

P.S. I can't wait to see how the press treats his previous "drug" use. I'm sure they will pursue those story lines as aggressively as they did for W.

P.P.S. - The "Obama attended a radical madrass" story was thoroughly debunked. Even Fox issued an embarrassing retraction.

Perhaps you prefer Clinton's "I didn't inhale" or Bush's "la-la-la-la-la-la I can't hear you", but Obama's "I inhaled. That was the point." and
"maybe a little blow when you could afford it" is about as honest and forthright as you can get.

How will the liberal medial treat it? They must be covering it well enough for you to be reciting talking points already.

[sohotrightnow]

Sonny, you are aware that your fearless leader GW did devil's dandruff in college. Am I missing something here? Your great leader of the free world has done many illegal things, drugs included.

[Jay Wisnieski]

If we're to have a president who has never used illegal drugs or done anything else illegal at least once in their lifetime, it's going to be hard to pick a president when the young adults that are in my age range (25) become old enough to start running for important political offices.

[Timbalaned]

I am with Jay. Not that I agree that it is a good thing or that I am implying that everyone has, but to find someone that has never taken some sort of an illegal substance is going to be hard to do. And again not that I am advocating the use of drugs, but in my mind, to have someone who is so straight arrow and hasn't had a broad array of "experience" in their life shouldn't be leading the country anyway, whether that experience be with drugs or anything else.

[Sonny]

If we're to have a president who has never used illegal drugs or done anything else illegal at least once in their lifetime, it's going to be hard to pick a president when the young adults that are in my age range (25) become old enough to start running for important political offices.

1. Just because many young people have used drugs doesn't make it right.

2. And there are plenty of folks out there that have never used drugs in the past or will use them in the future.

Again, I stand by my statement that we should expect more from the President of the United States. This isn't the evening stockperson at the 7-11.

[Brent Burns]

Hillbillery. The transition has already started. I got an email from a friend, and I found it at jibjab.com:

http://www.jibjab.com/jokebox/jokebox/jibjab/id/424653/jokeid/102209

I am sure you all have already heard about this and have seen this picture in the link above.

[StrykerFSU]

you are aware that your fearless leader GW did devil's dandruff in college.

Is there any evidence of this? Kitty Kelley books and uncorroborated stories need not apply.

t's going to be hard to pick a president when the young adults that are in my age range (25)

Some interesting statistics about drug use among high school seniors from the CDC:
....................1980................2004
Marijuana......33.7%............19.9%
Cocaine........5.2%..............2.3%
Alcohol.........72%..............48%
Binge Drink. 41.2%............29.2%

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus05.pdf#067

While I suppose it is admirable that Obama got out in front of the story and "admitted" his prior use that is not a get out of jail free card (pardon the bad pun). Admitting a mistake and saying you are sorry does not mean there will be no repercussions and that you are then above judgment for your actions.

I haven't read his book and haven't heard much on this story so I will be withholding my own judgment but I will say that a story like this will not help his candidacy. Do you guys really think that the voters in Iowa will be swooning over a black man with a Muslim name who has allegedly admitted to using cocaine? (and I don't mean that as a slight on Iowans, they are just the first caucus)

[Beta]

W stated that he has not done drugs at any time since 1974. How bout before that?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1012795.stm

[Tim Whitehead]

I don't know that polling high school seniors is the best way to gauge drug and alcohol use. People don't really start to party until they get to college.

Either way, the next president you vote in will be at least the third straight president you vote in that has used illegal drugs, whether you want to admit it or not. It's a non-issue.

[StrykerFSU]

It can't be all that worse than using the opinions of 1,600 people to predict the mood of the nation as a whole.

Regardless, I'd be interested in any real statistics that showed that drug use is more prevalent today than it was during the '60s and '70s.

And again, let's keep the slander to a minimum. Apparently I missed the the front page stories that exposed the President's drug use.

[Adam Gamradt]

"Is there any evidence of this? Kitty Kelley books and uncorroborated stories need not apply."

There wasn't any evidence sighting Senator Obama was schooled in a Madrass, but that didn't stop Sonny and the Fox News crowd from repeatedly sighting it as fact. Yesterday's story is more evidence of how the Republican party and right wing media outlets like InsightMag are part of the same organization. An organization that actively seeks to weaken the power of the fourth estate, in order to maintain the status quo.

I haven't read his book and haven't heard much on this story so I will be withholding my own judgment but I will say that a story like this will not help his candidacy. Do you guys really think that the voters in Iowa will be swooning over a black man with a Muslim name who has allegedly admitted to using cocaine? (and I don't mean that as a slight on Iowans, they are just the first caucus)

I recommend reading his book, go for the audio book. I think your point about what Iowans would think about a black man with a Muslim name says more about your perceptions of Iowans, and of black Muslims, than about what Iowans may think about Obama. I could be wrong, as m eaning is lost when debating via message board. I do hope your intention was better than your execution.

It also isn't an allegation, he's admitted to drug use as a teen. Words lose their meaning when used improperly, we owe it to each other to try to be accurate.

Senator Obama is a reasonable man, that's a refreshing change from the current leadership. I think there are at least 56 million Americans who are smart enough, and sufficiently self aware, to recognize an effecitve leader, and see through prejudice. Many of us even live up here in the Midwest.

My perception is that American's are ready for a change. A move away from the politics of Karl Rove, and toward more open dialouge and discussion. There's certainly no shortage of problems in this country, so we can choose to spend our time bickering like old ladies playing bridge, or we can choose to ask each other relevant questions. I can respect you, even if I can't respect your opinion. As coaches, we ask our players to do this everyday, so I don't see why it's such a leap to bring this kind of tolerance to our political discussions.

I think it's good we're asking the question, even if it's a little sad to still have to in 2007. Is America ready to elect a black man? Is America ready to elect a woman? We damn well better be, becuase it looks like it's going to happen. I also think it's good to imagine a day when questions like Cliff's won't be relevant, and a person is judged on the quality of their character. If I'm ever lucky enough to have a child, I hope he or she will wonder why people ever cared so much about secondary characteristics like skin color or what set of fun parts someone has. I know I'm being naive, and the timeline for this is most likely much longer than my lifespan. I'm still going to try.

I'm proud to be a Democrat, as we're pushing for change, this fact is reflected in the Obama vs. Hillary wrestling match. Both of these people are qualified to be president. If you want to argue otherwise, that's fine. The fact that one has darker skin, and one has a vagina is not relevant to the discussion of their character.

Now, the drug issue is legitimate. Sonny's preference for a lifetime of sobriety is noble. I personally don't see how smoking a joint when you were 18 has anything to do with your character, but that's also my opinion, and that's just fine too.

Since I'm bored, and we've opened up the discussion to drug abuse.

Here's a video of President Bush from 1992.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/p ... sh_tsg.mov

It's important to note that President Bush claims to have quit drinking at age 39, in 1986. He's an admitted alcoholic. And quite frankly, has probably experienced neurological damange as a result. Now how in the world can you judge Senator Obama, and still support President Bush?

Use as many words to answer as you like.

[Adam Gamradt]

Discussing President Bush's drug and alcohol use isn't slander Cliff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._ ... ontroversy

He is in the public eye, and if it's relevant to the discussion about Senator Obama, then it's relevant to the discussion about President Bush, isn't it?

Please explain how this could possibly be slanderous?