Broncos CB Darrent Williams killed in drive by shooting

[FLAK]

just as a little side note, I hope that the people who shot Tupac and Biggie are happy that they effectively ruined rap for everyone else and allowed chumps like li'l john to make their music into a simple formula for "success" instead of as a way to musically express street lyrics and poetry. There are exceptions to this of course, but most of the stuff that you hear is all digitally enhanced with some douche shouting "yeah" in the background and its never going to end until someone realizes that it really is garbage music that only makes sense to people with 10 second attention spans...just had to get that off my chest.

Some people deserve the death penalty as they can never be rehabilitated back into society ie. Bundy, Gacy, Dahmer etc... and to keep them locked up for the rest of their lives is just ridiculous as it forces us, the taxpayers, to pay for it. I believe dahmer was killed by a broomstick though, wasnt he?

[onpoint]

I would urge you all to stray away from the death penalty debate because there can be no winner there, no matter which side of the fence you all sit.

[sohotrightnow]

who for the past 5 years average roughly 2.5-3 million per year...against the US that averages 1.4 almost consistently...not bad considering we have 5 times their population.

Huh? What stat is this?

[Beta]

who for the past 5 years average roughly 2.5-3 million per year...against the US that averages 1.4 almost consistently...not bad considering we have 5 times their population.

Huh? What stat is this?

I used the CIA's statistics. As long as theirs is better than the ones my company uses for transpo it should have a better margin of error (that being anything under 99.99%)

[sohotrightnow]

No, I mean, literally, what are you talking about? Guns bought per year?

[StrykerFSU]

I too have read statistics showing that violent crime has increased in the UK since they instituted their ban on handguns.

I'm not sure how you combat violence like this. Is it the thug culture? Is it the movies, music, video games, etc? I don't think so but whatever the cause there are elements in our society who do not value human life. With that in mind, you can limit your exposure to such elements. This idea was presented in ESPN's report on athletes and guns. Sometimes bad things happen to good people but I have to say you are much less likely to get shot sitting on your couch at 2 AM than if you are at an urban nightclub. I'm not blaming the victim, he deserves to be alive today but we all have the responsibility to protect ourselves and be smart.

As for the coward who tried to prove his manhood by indiscriminately spraying bullets, his right to life will be up to the state of Colorado.

[CATLAX MAN]

I have yet to see a gun make a decision to fire itself. Just like so many other facets of our society, we are very quick to ascribe blame to the wrong source. When will common sense take over and we start holding the idiots who commit these acts responsible for their own actions?

[somrandomguy]

Some people deserve the death penalty as they can never be rehabilitated back into society ie. Bundy, Gacy, Dahmer etc... and to keep them locked up for the rest of their lives is just ridiculous as it forces us, the taxpayers, to pay for it. I believe dahmer was killed by a broomstick though, wasnt he?

With the process of appeals and everything else, it's almost always cheaper to lock someone up for life than to execute them.

[jessexy]

No one has ever been murdered outside a grocery store? Maybe true, but what University of Miami lineman Bryan Pata, who was murdered outside of his apartment building?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/ ... 1194.shtml

Or how about Baylor University basketball player Patrick Dennehy?

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/30/dennehy.autopsy/

Or how about the five Duquesne University players who were shot outside a school dance?

I'm also curious why is it so easy for a person to get an automatic rifle?

this is exactly my point. we all should be able to go out and party til the wee hours of the morning without the risk of being shot going up. i dont have any stats or anything to back this up, but its my opinion. The Duquense players were shot while leaving a party that ended early in the morning. last i heard, some people at college partys are drunk. In fact, ESPN the Mag just wrote an entire article about college students at U of Colorado getting drunk and partying. The Duquense players should be able to walk to their dorms with no problems. but they were accosted and shot at and its not fair.

am i the only one that sees that these incidents are happening in a pretty specific situation where trouble can arise from anywhere and not after church on Sunday afternoon?

[OAKS]

I too have read statistics showing that violent crime has increased in the UK since they instituted their ban on handguns.

Australia too had a rise in violent crime after they banned handguns.

However, take a look at Japan. The only guns they can own are shotguns, and there's very little violent crime there.

[StrykerFSU]

Good point Oaks but there is an enormous difference between Japanese and Western culture.

[Sonny]

I have yet to see a gun make a decision to fire itself. Just like so many other facets of our society, we are very quick to ascribe blame to the wrong source. When will common sense take over and we start holding the idiots who commit these acts responsible for their own actions?

CatLax is in the early running for 2007 Post of the Year.

[Brent Burns]

I have yet to see a gun make a decision to fire itself. Just like so many other facets of our society, we are very quick to ascribe blame to the wrong source. When will common sense take over and we start holding the idiots who commit these acts responsible for their own actions?

CatLax is in the early running for 2007 Post of the Year.

Someone gotta keep track of possible 2007 Post of the Year nominations as well as Top Water Cooler Story of 2007 when that comes up possibly in October or November. Thought it would be a cool tradition to keep up each year. Now back to the subject at hand.

[Rob Graff]

* Understand that I am a strong supporter of an individual's right to bear arms, much to the consternation of many of my left-leaning friends (on which I agree on many other issues). But with that caveat, and with my agreement with Catlax Man's note that firearms do not fire themselves, I still have to question why these types of events continue to take place at an ever-increasing rate.

Is it simply that owners of firearms are not properly securing said objects, such that their are either stolen or accessible by youth?

Is it that the current generation have no impulse control - that any anger impulse immediately escalates to an armed confrontation because our youth don't have the capacity to control their anger?

Is it a continued emotional deadening of our youth through the ubiquitous violent images that they watch on TV/Movies/Video games such that mental/moral barrier against causing the death of another has been weakened/eliminated?

Is it the impact of a "thug culture" as Mr. Hill posits in his thought-provoking argument found at http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070104

I was slashed in Boston while in college. It's a long story, but in short, my 3 roommates and I noted some classmates taking a wrong turn into Boston's Combat zone after a movie (some Arnold flick - they all run together now), and ran after them, knowing they didn't know what they were doing. We were correct - they were surrounded and being threatened. We got them out of there, but ended up in a tiff. I didn't notice the slashes on my back (through a lined leather coat/sweater/shirt) until we had escaped in a taxi. The point of this story is that I think back to that sometimes and wonder if it had happened NOW - roughly 20 years later - would I have been shot instead?

The point is the continued killing of our youth by guns must stop. A solution must address the increased number of guns available, societal values and education of our children. Just don't ask me how we accomplish those things in a coherent, constitutional and balanced manner.

[Adam Gamradt]

Catlax,

I've heard your argument before. it's a nice talking point, but doesn't really add to the debate. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Well duh. Actually, the bullets kill people, but your finger must first find and pull the trigger.

Guns just make it easy.

My point is that it is far too easy for people to get guns, especially guns that have no purpose other than to kill.

Never did I claim that people aren't responsible for their actions, nor did I claim they should not be held accountable.

I am convinced that guns are easier to obtain than they should be, specifically assault rifles, and to a lesser extent, handguns. The ease with which they are obtained has had a direct result on the increase in gun related homicides.

Your average young black man is 5 times more likely to die at the end of a barrel, than is a young white man.

Gun related violence is the leading cause of death for young black men.

I'm not advocating we repeal the second amendment. I'm trying to make the point that guns are far to easy to get, and effective gun control is something we have failed to address in America.

Someone please explain how overall homicide rates have gone down since the 1970's, but gun related deaths are up? Maybe you can come up with something better than a used up talking point from the NRA?

Guns are indeed a problem in this country. But not only for young black men, who clearly suffer disproportionately from gun violence, and our inability to institue effective gun control.

You're five times more likely to have a suicide in your home, if you have a gun.

You are 43 times more likely to kill a family member, than an intruder.

There was over 340000 guns stolen last year.

If you make them harder to get, they become harder for criminals to get, because you drive up the price.

It's a good thing the gun manufacturers have no responsibility for their actions. Here's a couple of weapons banned by the feds, that were modified, and are still available to damn near anyone who wants one.

You want an AR-15? Head over to: http://www.bushmaster.com/

You want an AK-47? The good corporate citizens at Robarm will help you: http://www.robarm.com/

My personal favorite, the straight shooting Mac-10: http://www.tickbitesupply.com/mpa.html

I've handled one of these, and frankly, it's only purpose is to kill. To think of how easy it was to find, much less to operate, still boggles my mind. A weapon such as this is not what our founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the second amendment. Court decision after court decision agrees with limiting the scope of the second amendment, it's not a free pass to have any weapon we can think of.

The gun industry mocks any attempt to control the production of items made for the specific purpose of killing a human being. For this behavior, they should be held accountable for their actions. I am not sure exactly how, but I am damn sure not giving them a free pass.

Plain and simple. The odds that you defend yourself with one of these, pales when compared to the odds that you'll kill mom because the meatloaf was too dry.

We have a gun problem in this country. It's both a matter of personal responsibility, and corporate responsibility. It's also impossible to separate the means, from the motive. That is, it's quite naive to ignore the role the guns play in this crisis. It isn't an either or issue, it's both the behavior, and the guns themselves.

The solution isn't to ban guns, it isn't that black and white. Stiffer penalties for gun crimes, a registry for guns and ammunition, and mandatory training and licensing for anyone who buys a gun.

I know how much everyone on the right hate Michael Moore, but Bowling for Columbine was a really interesting take on gun violence in America. It's definately suggested viewing for anyone looking for another perspective.