Saddam Hussein Executed...

[cjwilhelmi]

echo 600 raises a very good point.... kidding or not.

I'm rather not get a call from the Secret Service. So lets lay off the jokes about the death of the US President.

Next month's podcast - "Sonny and the Secret Service Men". Collegelax.us' Webmaster, Sonny Pieper, discusses religion, political belief, the first amendment, and the benefits of the early COMA slide with the individuals who protect the leader of the free world.

Sorry Sorry Sorry I just had to say it.

[Beta]

Back to the original topic at hand...

If Hussein's atrocities in the 1980's were warranting of his execution 20 years later...when we demolished Iraq during Desert Storm why didn't we take care of him then? Instead of waiting until they could replenish their military and weaponary..and garnish an even stronger anti-american hate sentiment that just resulted in our 3,000th death since our invasion.

And what is the general concensus of the comparison in how many people have died in Iraq since our invasion (50,000-500,000 depending on what you listen to [Lancet, iraqbodycount.com, etc]), and the people he killed while he was our ally in the 1980's?

[Sonny]

It sure is easy to play Monday Morning Quarterback. If we knew now, what we knew then...

Do we need a reminder of alll the attacks on America, American Interests, and/or Free Western countries since Desert Storm ended?

[devildog0351]

The UN resolution passes in the Gulf War only allowed us to legally kick Saddam out of Kuwait, not overthrow Iraq. We did exactly what the UN allowed us to. Gen. Schwartzkoph (idk how exactly his name is spelled) wanted to keep going and topple Saddam, but Bush Sr wouldn't allow us since the UN resolution didn't legally allow us to. That is why we didn't take out Saddam back in the Gulf War. Brush up on your international history a little before you blame the current president for something he couldn't avoid. As far as the death total in Iraq, I know it is a lot, and it is sad. I personally have lost some great friends and some of the best people I know of sacrificed their lives over there. The Iraqi civilian death toll is also sad, but we are trying to keep their casualties to a minimum. The majority of their deaths have come from attacks from insurgents and extremist because they realized in attacking the US troops that we wouldn't be deterred. They have to kill civilians for anybody to give a care. People go on living and justifying troop deaths as their job to die for the country. I know we are loosing brave men and women over there because we are trying to protect and keep Iraqi civilian casualties to a minimum. Believe me when I say if we really wanted to kill civilians that Iraq would be a parking lot in a matter of seconds, but we don't, we are trying to rebuild to the best of our abilities. That has to speak for something that we are trying to rebuild instead of just toppling Saddam and leaving! Anyways back to deaths in Iraq, if we really wanted to commit to the "Total War" philosophy that we used in WWII than we could and I believe would easily take out any insurgents left, the reason we don't is because we are trying to take care of Iraqi civilians and keep their losses to a minimum. Remember, War is Hell, and people die! We are trying to keep that number as low as possible, but it is hard when Iraqis are killing other Iraqis and then people go and blame the US for their deaths because US civilians don't seem to care when troops die, only when civilians die.

(When I talk about US civilians I am talking about the masses, not any people in particular. Remember how people were horrified about 9/11? How we memorialize those who died, well how many people take time to remember the 220+ Marines, Sailors, Soldiers, and Airmen who died in the bombing of the Marine Barracks in Beruit Lebanon on Oct. 23, 1983? They were there just keeping peace with no war intentions, but we seem to forget them. They were just as innocent as those who died in 9/11!)

[Beta]

Brush up on your international history a little before you blame the current president for something he couldn't avoid.

At what point did I ever blame Bush, because I blame our govt as a whole. I may just be a lowly, uneducated double-engineering major from a military family but I am pretty sure that I understand just how little power President Bush actually has in terms of military control in relation to the rest of our other elected leaders, he's a figurehead...not a General. He doesn't point and we just go and start blasting away. But I am definitely allowed (freedom of speech) to criticize his public speaking (for lack of better words)...even if his speech writers are to blame. I will never accept that a Yale grad saying "crusade" in regards to modern-day middle-eastern actions is acceptable...but I digress.

It's hard to avoid the whole "why we're in Iraq and whether or not it's justified", but it's not being a Monday morning quarterback to say that before, during and after the fact that you don't approve of something. Because if it is...any criticism of any sort would indeed make anyone a MM-QB. And yes, I understand that if I were in Iraq in Saddam's regime I would not be allowed to voice my opinion...but how many countries today violate ridiculous amounts of civil rights and we just don't do anything about, obviously due to the fact that they arent military or economic appealing?

[Brent Burns]

The link below is not directly related to this thread, but it is worth reading this article.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,3346589,00.html

[devildog0351]

Joe,
I didn't mean to in any way keep you from any freedom of speech. I guess I went overboard trying to defend myself and in trying to show in my opinion why we didn't take out Saddam in the 1st Gulf War. I am just a little biased towards the military and think people don't give us enough credit, and are quick to point the fingers at us who are serving. My battalion is 3rd in line to go over there, and I don't know when my call is coming, but I know it is soon. Everybody is entitled to think what they want about President Bush, I personally like the guy, I met him back when I was in elementary school when he was governor of Texas. (one of the kids on my brother's baseball team worked with him back then) He is a really nice guy. I just wish people would remember Congress voted in favor of the Iraq invasion, not just President Bush, so don't point all the blame at him. I believe he knows things aren't the way they seemed per the intelligence he was presented with, but President Bush isn't the only person to blame if people are upset about Iraq. Also people may think what they want about the elections, but this second time around he did win the popular vote, so there is not doubt he is the clear cut winner. So lets stick behind him to the best of our abilities. God knows he has a very difficult job, and I don't think any of us could do much better.

Again these are just my opinions. If I offended anybody I apologize openly ahead of time.

Semper Fi!
Lcpl Cross

[devildog0351]

but how many countries today violate ridiculous amounts of civil rights and we just don't do anything about, obviously due to the fact that they arent military or economic appealing?

I also agree there are many countries who do violate ridiculous amounts of civil rights and believe we should do something about it, but Im not in politics, and have no desire to be. I don't make any rules, it is just my job to follow orders to the best of my ability. I do know the USA can't do it all alone, any other countries want to step up and help out a little bit?

[Beta]

Again these are just my opinions. If I offended anybody I apologize openly ahead of time.

Oh no offense taken whatsoever...bah...the drawbacks of internet msg boards. I was just voicin' my opinion casually, I wasn't like aggressively-typin. I just hate to see my friends (literally) go off to war when I don't agree with the cause more/less. I mean we're not fighting the nazi's anymore. It's just so hard for myself personally to justify the death of even one American nowadays. As un-PC as it sounds...the death of one American isn't ever acceptable and enfuriates me, in a scary uber-patriotic way. Happy New Year!

[devildog0351]

the death of one American isn't ever acceptable and enfuriates me

I agree completely. It inst acceptable and it really makes me mad.

Happy New Years!

[somrandomguy]

Back to the original topic at hand...

If Hussein's atrocities in the 1980's were warranting of his execution 20 years later...when we demolished Iraq during Desert Storm why didn't we take care of him then? Instead of waiting until they could replenish their military and weaponary..and garnish an even stronger anti-american hate sentiment that just resulted in our 3,000th death since our invasion.

Because, whatever Bush Sr's faults may have been, he was still a pretty competent president, unlike his son. He realized that we needed a strong Iraq to counterbalance Iran's influence in the region, and that if we did go into Iraq we would only be encountering the same problems we are now.

Note: Not a personal attack against you, just stating my opinion on the subject.

[OAKS]

Do we need a reminder of alll the attacks on America, American Interests, and/or Free Western countries since Desert Storm ended?

By Iraq?

[laxfan25]

Do we need a reminder of alll the attacks on America, American Interests, and/or Free Western countries since Desert Storm ended?

By Iraq?

Exactly, and how many people believe that our actions in Iraq have lessened the likelihood of more attacks vs, those that feel we have exacerbate the problem and fomented a HUGE increase in anti-American sentiment around the world?
Meanwhile, Osama is still sitting back enjoying dates in his cave, letting us do his recruitment for him. We continue to shed blood in vain while GWB twiddles his thumbs trying to come up with an exciting new way of arranging the deck chairs on Operation Titanic. I think he is scared witless, realizing that the stakes are high, and the chances of winning are slim and getting slimmer by the day. A "surge" of 35,000 troops is not going to stem the tide of internal dissolution going on in Iraq. All the wishing and hoping will be washed away by events on the ground - there is no security apparatus in place that can be trusted to act in a non-sectarian manner, the population has turned to militias as their last line of defense, and those that can find a way to flee the country have done, or are doing so. We have lost Iraq, it's just a question of when it is admitted, and when we really start blaming the Iraqis for this whole mess.

[Beta]

Because, whatever Bush Sr's faults may have been, he was still a pretty competent president, unlike his son. He realized that we needed a strong Iraq to counterbalance Iran's influence in the region, and that if we did go into Iraq we would only be encountering the same problems we are now.

Yeah, I understand that definitely. Iran is a huge monkey in the wrench over there. The enemy of our enemy in this case (Iran) ended up being our enemy too. It just seems like we're in the process of playing hopscotch across the middle east.

[Sonny]

Do we need a reminder of alll the attacks on America, American Interests, and/or Free Western countries since Desert Storm ended?

By Iraq?

By Radical Islam.

I mean we're not fighting the nazi's anymore.

The present problem, as I see it in this "debate," is clearly illustrated by these types of comments when many folks fail to admit that we are currently ALREADY engaged in WW3. Meanwhile, Islam continues it's rapid rise in Western nations and the mainstream media screams at any sign of bloodshed in Iraq.

Do you guys have the same objections to all the Islamic "Hot spots" around the world right now? Do you have any idea how many deaths occur daily in the name of Islam?

Ed Koch's recent column is an excellent read:

George Bush is my hero

President George W. Bush, vilified by many, supported by some, is a hero to me.

Why do I say that? It's not because I agree with the President's domestic agenda. It's not because I think he's done a perfect job in the White House.

George Bush is a hero to me because he has courage. The President does what he believes to be in the best interest of the United States. He sticks with his beliefs, no matter how intense the criticism and invective that are directed against him every day.

The enormous defeat President Bush suffered with the loss of both Houses of Congress has not caused him to retreat from his position that the US alone now stands between a radical Islamic takeover of many of the world's governments in the next 30 or more years. If that takeover occurs, we will suffer an enslavement that will threaten our personal freedoms and take much of the world back into the Dark Ages.

Our major ally in this war against the forces of darkness, Great Britain, is still being led by an outstanding prime minister, Tony Blair. However, Blair will soon be set out to pasture, which means Great Britain will leave our side and join France, Germany, Spain and other countries that foolishly believe they can tame the wolf at the door and convert it into a domestic pet that will live in peace with them.

These dreamers naively believe that if we feed the wolves what they demand, they will go away. But that won't happen. Appeasement never works. The wolves always come back for more and more, and when we have nothing left to give, they come for us.

Full article here:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull