NCLL teams joining MCLA?

[John Westfall]

JP:

I hear you JP. I have been in this league from the beginning and I have seen a lot of stuff. I also have coached in three different Conferences in this League with Coach of the year honors in both the RMLC and the SELC. With most of my Teams, the budgets I have had have been between $10,000-$25,000 Dollars on a annual basis. I have had a couple of programs with $45,000-$55,000 Dollars in our annual budget. But that has come from very hard work from both myself and my Players. Of the five Schools I have been at The University of New Mexico is by far the best in giving to the program. Unlike Colorado State, UNM has given us some where between $12,000-$14,000 Dollars for our program including paying our RMLC dues for us. But most Teams I come across are not as lucky as what I have at UNM or some of the other Schools I coached at. At Liberty they did not give us a penny from the School. A lot of money was donated through the Chancellor himself.

I have always been interested in how the big programs put together these 6 figure numbers for their budgets. Last Spring I wrote 12 of the big programs and only 2 guys responded to my letter. In fact JP I wrote you. The problem with my letter is it was the beginning of the spring Season when we all are very busy. Your response was "I am very busy right now but I will get back with you John". JP you never got back with me.The guy at Lindenwood gave me a little bit of information on some things he does and Mason Goodhand who is a good friend wrote me and later gave me a call and we talked for some time.

One of the things Mason told me he does is charges I believe $1500 Dollars for Team dues. I have considered doing that in the past. The College Students I have come across don't have those kinds of funds for Lacrosse. The most I have ever charged and will charge at this point for Player dues is $500.00 Dollars but even that seems a lot and I have lost my share of good players in asking for that amount from my Players. I have been in bed a lot these last couple of months, but I have had to fly to Charlotte to see my Doctors and if I knew ahead of time about the conference in Baltimore I would have went to that while I was back east. I realize the information is out there if you look and like Sonny says this stuff costs money but I think it would be great if all the Coaches in the league got a League Newsletter E-mail on a monthly basis so we know about what is going on. If people are informed I think that attendance would go through the roof at these workshops. If a lot of us have-not coaches could tap into what the wealthy programs are doing that makes their programs so competitive it would be a benefit. I really believe that most Coaches in the League would have interest whether they are career minded or not. I know I am in. I want to know how you guys get all these sponsors and run these mega rich teams.

From my other posts, my own opinion is with all this money now in the league we need to be careful with checks and balances and ethics. Alex makes a good point this is not Club Lacrosse anymore. It is a Business, like it or not that is the way it is. I also believe that something needs to be done with Club Sports Directors as far information for all the Universities and Colleges in the League. I realize that some conferences have developed a better relationship with their Schools and Club Sports Directors but more needs to be done. Lastly, just my own experience, a lot of guys who run these big programs are not always willing to give their secrets. I don't know why that is or if it is from a competitive stance but I think we all need to be open and help the rest of the Teams develop. If we can cover these areas the playing field will be more then level and will make us a much more competitive league then we already are, and it will benefit all our programs.

[cjwilhelmi]

I realize the information is out there if you look and like Sonny says this stuff costs money but I think it would be great if all the Coaches in the league got a League Newsletter E-mail on a monthly basis so we know about what is going on.

DOH! That already exists. The collegelax newsletter comes out weekly or biweekly and is emailed to you.

I'm going to try to figure out how to put the cool logo and link on here. If I fail Sonny please help!

HAHA I figured it out

[John Westfall]

Ok, I am a little behind on some things. I will sign up for that. My question is where do you sign up for that? If people don't know where to get the information they are not going to be informed.

All 9 conferences have the E-mail addresses of the Coaches and that should be given to the league, and be put on the newletter list. If you don't care to get the newsletter delete it and e-mail back and be asked to be taken off the list.

I apologize, Again I am way behind on some stuff due to my health.

[mholtz]

At MSU we charge $2000 for dues, but we also run a large fundraiser, and give 75% of the money that comes from that fundraiser back to the players in the form of discounts off their dues.

We also include EVERYTHING up front. We don't "back load" the players with things like "poney up $10 for gas" or "pitch in $30 for a hotel".

When we showed the players where the $2000 went, and where the other fundraising was coming from, and how the money was being spent it worked out much better.

We lost a few players, but not all that many.

[John Westfall]

Thanks Matt. That is the kind of stuff we just need to get out there. We have a simular approach at UNM for that. But it has taken me many years of trial and error to get there.

[Sonny]

This stuff is almost too comical to make up.

This image has been in my sig file for several weeks now:


I guess Reading is (still) fundamental!

[Beta]

Hey Sonny, be nice to Corbin....he's......special...

[Zeuslax]

Not to change the subject.......but I guess I will. One thing I think we are all overlooking here is the time factor. Most (notice I've said most) of the "big" teams and very successful organizations have been involved for a while in this thing. It takes time. To take a program at this level that is brand new or in shambles, I think 3 to 5 years is safe to say. This is just to get on the right track and heading the in the direction off the field were we all want to be. The culture of the organization has to be changed. The way the your organization is perceived internally has to be changed from the top down. There has to be a shared vision with goals that the whole organization are working towards.

I'll close with this. I think over the past 6 years I've been involved with this league, I've seen a communication from the leadership maybe twice. Once has been a direct result of this web site. Some of this confusion can be taking care of with direct communication from our leaders. I think they have and are working towards greater things for all of us. However, we may not be aware due to the lack of written communication in one place.

We talk a lot on here about "struggling" with what the B division really is. I think we all know and have definitions in our head. It is much more than school size. This is one area that I would like to see evolved into a clearly defined document with increased clarity.

[Sonny]

I think over the past 6 years I've been involved with this league, I've seen a communication from the leadership maybe twice.

Very rarely does the national leadership communicate directly with the actual individual teams. Information has historically been communicated through the conference directors. For one reason, it was too unwieldy for the national board to communicate with the end teams because the team contacts are in a constant state of flux.

I agree with your other main points. It does takes time to build a team and that we are all still struggling with what Division B is now (or should be moving forward).

[Zeuslax]

Very rarely does the national leadership communicate directly with the actual individual teams. Information has historically been communicated through the conference directors. For one reason, it was too unwieldy for the national board to communicate with the end teams because the team contacts are in a constant state of flux.

I think you communicated my sentiments exactly...........This is an area often overlooked. What are the individual league structures and their communication tools to the individual teams? I think the CCLA is very lucky that we have JP within our organization.

[John Westfall]

Sonny:

Maybe there needs to be some more communication. What does history have to do with the here and now? Some changes maybe in line. In the RMLC John Robinette is pretty good about communication. If he had not sent all the info out on Schedules, Rosters and eligibility I would not have a clue. That does not mean I don't read stuff, just I don't always know where to find things to be informed. Hey, what ever you think. But I think if there was a more direct relationship from the Board to the 200 Members it would be helpful if it does not become an overload for those involved. I am sorry I am bit slow on things. I'm in recovery of a Brain injury that is related to Lacrosse. I don't find that comical because I ask questions and make suggestions.

[OAKS]

No, I doubt very much they would come. We simply do not have many people at our level who consider themselves professional coaches.

Nor do many teams have the resources to truly hire a 'professional coach'. We're talking about a job that takes 3+ hours a day during the week for practice alone, no matter traveling for games, time spent recruiting, conference meetings, fundraising, etc.

True, a few can afford pay a coach a nice amount (for example, $15,000 for Chico State - http://forums.collegelax.us/viewtopic.php?t=5304 ), but otherwise you're asking someone to put in a near full-time job in the spring on top of anything else for mere peanuts. Most times, for someone to become a 'professional coach' at our level, they have to have a combination of great flexibility in their regular job or the financial stability to not worry about working less. The amount of coaches out there is small. The amount of coaches with these qualifications is amazingly slim. Until we can pay a liveable salary to coaches, you're not going to see more 'professional coaches'.

That being said, if you look at the top teams (even up to 25+ range) in the history of the MCLA, one of the few things they have in common is an established coach.

[John Paul]

Oaks is exactly right. That's my point. Finding a coach who can make it work on limited team income is very, very hard to do. However, there are ways to make it work. For example, as the team is building can the coach who has committed to make a real job of it work another job to help financially for a few years until more resources are available? Can that job be in the lacrosse industry (Flip Naumberg is a great example of this)? Can he work the summer camp circuit to make extra money (which, by the way, is probably the most valuable networking and learning tool available out there for a young coach)? Can he run his own summer camps using the program name as a draw to make significant (and I mean significant) extra income? Ultimately, it comes down to finding someone who wants to be a career coach and allowing him the resources to make it happen.

Believe me John, there is plenty of communication. We communicate regularly to the conference commissioners, and they should be passing that along to you. We do it that way, as Sonny mentioned, because they have a better handle on exactly how to reach their teams at any given moment, and also because we are all volunteers with jobs, families, coaching gigs, a national league to administer, etc. Communicating back and forth between 9 conferences is manageable for us. Communicating directly, back and forth, with 200 teams would make us much less efficient, and that means we would be less able to serve each of you in the long run.

The MCLA website will have a lot of the information you need in one place, however none of that is new. All of the information that is going up there has been disseminated over and over again through the conferences, and very little of it has changed over the years.

Finally, Zeuslax is right about it taking time. Matt Holtz had a great post in this thread about making a plan that involves short-term and long-term goals and moving your team forward a step at a time. When I started coaching Michigan it was a pure club team: student officers and a single coach who just ran practices and games when he could be there (and some years no coach at all), dues in the $200 range, lack of real commitment, almost no school support... you guys all know exactly what I'm describing. I actually had no plan or intention of making it much more than it was at the time. I was working a full time job that I had just started. Jason Lamb can tell a similar story about BYU. Flip has written about his process of evolving the CSU team. John Galvin is going through that now at CU. There is a long list of MCLA coaches who are going through that process. You want your team to make significant changes?...then find the right coach.

[John Westfall]

JP:

I hear you, and it can be a huge undertaking. On the conference level John Robinette in the RMLC may be the best I have ever worked with. He gives us a ton of information that I would never know where to get that from. I have not seen this news letter but if it is more on the national scene and has some helpful information that is great. I would never ask anyone from the Board to personally contact all the members of the league but maybe a general communication. As good as John Robinette is there are a bunch of things on the national level I don't know about. For example this Conference in Baltimore a couple of weeks ago. Yes, and maybe some starter information for teams to be successful and help them develop a strong budget so they can be competitive. Some of this stuff may need to be done on the Conference level but one thing certain you can never have enough information out there to help programs develop.

On the league again, I just have a few concerns of accountability and ethics but for the most part you have answered some my questions and concerns. Our Team Captain Michael Mooney who went to the RMLC meeting explained to me the separation with US Lacrosse so I am ok on that. But several of my friends in Coaching in the NCAA seem to have a different view point.

[PigPen]

What I don't understand is since when does there have to be parity in the league? This isn't a PC league for 5 year olds all have to participate, everyone is a winner, and little Johnny has to bring home a trophy. Come on, get over it. There will always be the good teams and the also-rans. They are separated by structure, organization, player commitment, and quality of coaching. If you want to be one of the winners, address these issues with your team and things will fall into place.

Bingo-I'm glad someone was direct and to the point.

The MCLA is just like the English Premier League-You will always have your Arsenals, Chelseas and ManUs (UCSB, UM, CSU, etc) at the top and then a middle pack-M'boro, Newcastles (Lindenwood, MinnDuluth) and then some parity down at the bottom of the tables. Can the Readings of the world compete with those top teams? Yes, maybe not on a yearly basis but on any given gameday it can happen. Just a few short years ago-I remember it took a Alex Smith save in the last two minutes to keep A&M from tying CSU (and possibly beating them) in the qtrs. FSU launched themselves from rising program to a top program with a great run in '05. Anyone remember the Girbaldi's Auburn squad from a few years back? If you want Parity-watch MLS. I can't thnk of any other lax league (college or pros) that have true parity. So work at getting better or just accept that you are in the league to play some organized lacrosse. If that's not your cup of tea-there are plenty of men's POCO leagues around the country that would be happy to have you and your mix-matched jerseys, share a beer and run around a poorly lined field. Remember what you have.