NCLL teams joining MCLA?

[Beta]

I think it's important to note that the Michigan's, BYU's and FSU's of the world are not going to do it the same way that Robert Morris did it at the D1 level.

definatley, somewhere like sonoma would be a spot that i think would make the jump (to whatever division they are) and could use a lot of pieces from the club team.

I think they're D2. That'd be interesting if they made that jump.

[laxdad03]

Hey bste, it made your 5th page!

[gobblerlax05]

some ncll school dont have a varisty team ie rider and radford! so thats prett much why they wqant cto come here!

[OAKS]

I think we also have to ask ourselves why do we want to go varsity?

If GT got a varsity team, big whoop. I didn't play varsity, my teammates didn't play varsity, and while there are plenty of deserving guys I played with, they'd most likely never be recognized by the Athletic Association. I'd say a majority of the current team wouldn't make the varsity team, especially if they had a large recruiting class their first year. I'd venture to say a large portion of the MCLA wouldn't be on a varsity roster for D1. There's little else that makes me as mad as when people say 'club lacrosse inhibits the growth at the varsity level.' That's not even the point. These teams weren't started by guys wanting to compete against varsity teams. They weren't started by coaches or alumni. They were started by kids who went to that college or university for a reason and wanted to continue playing lacrosse (or start playing). These kids in little to no way can increase varsity college lacrosse across the nation. What are they to do in the meantime? There are enough players to field an extra 200+ teams above and beyond those that offer varsity. That's amazing.

Do we want to go varsity for the recognition? I told the girls I coached they were the true student-athletes at Tech. They were on the SGA, they ran their sororities, they played Rugby, were in the band, they ran a wide variety of organizations, made better grades than I ever did and still had time to come out and practice and travel with little to no help from the Institution. Yet they still get to represent their school. The only people who seemed to care about our status were the varsity athletes. Do we want to go varsity for better competition? Again, how many guys would benefit from that? Also, we are already competing and winning against stronger and stronger varsity competition.

Guys, we have one hell of a product on our hands. True, we have problems, but you see people at laxpower arguing about the location of the D1 National Championship, people arguing about the rankings, etc. Aside from a things here and there, we've gotten this thing right so far. What benefit do any of us get from going varsity? If I ever make enough money to give some of it away, the club team at GT is at or near the top of my list.

I'd enjoy watching GT play against Maryland, Virginia, Duke, UNC, etc, but other than that, I'll never benefit from a varsity team at tech, and they will probably never benefit from me unless I have more money than I know what to do with.

Again, why do we want to go varsity? I'd support the addition of a varsity team at Tech, but I don't want to see it come at the expense of my old club team.

[somrandomguy]

*snip snip*

Below the D1 level, where most of the issue is Title IX, I think club lacrosse can be looked at one of two ways by athletic directors:

1) Oh, we have a strong, well-organized club team. We don't need a varsity team to draw students.
2) Oh, we have a very popular, well-organized club team. Let's make it a varsity sport to draw more students of that caliber.

I think that for whatever reason, NCAA status has an unexplainable allure to it for student-athletes, regardless of the reality. Because in reality, many club teams, especially at the A level, are playing at a much higher level and are much better organized than many NCAA teams at the Division 3 level, despite the perception of NCAA lacrosse as more "legitimate." But students chose to go to schools with clubs for reasons other than lacrosse.
But it is a fact that varsity lacrosse will draw a lot of students who otherwise wouldn't even look at the school. I'm not going to name names, but one college I'm looking at that's in a less than totally desirable location is drawing prospects from California to Jersey, and plenty of places in between who are all drawn by the lacrosse program. It's a good school academically as well, but most of those students wouldn't look twice at it if it wasn't for lacrosse.
For further example, right now my top two choices for school are the aforementioned school and another small, liberal-arts school with a strong MCLA-affiliated club team. Hypothetically, with all things being equal(including opportunity for playing time), I would probably choose the D3 team over the club team; and this would mostly be because other than the free gear and access to nice facilities, playing varsity lacrosse is seen as more legit and would open up more lacrosse opportunities in other areas (coaching at lacrosse camps, for example).
In summary, there is still the false perception that club lacrosse is on a lower level than varsity lacrosse. Until this is remedied, people will still clamor for varsity lacrosse. Did all that make sense?

[SDSULAX]

You might want to check on that "free gear". At some NCAA schools, just because it is a varsity program, doesn't mean that the school furnishes everything.

[somrandomguy]

You might want to check on that "free gear". At some NCAA schools, just because it is a varsity program, doesn't mean that the school furnishes everything.

At some lower level schools, yes. At this specific school, lacrosse is going to be one of their flagship sports, so it will in fact be well-funded. Of course, I was also told explicitly by the coach "The only thing you'll need to provide will be a stick."

[Waldo]

First a bit of background. I work in intercollegiate athletics everyday. Its a great gig and I love it. I also love when the varsity discussion comes around. I don't know if it, the discussion, has ever not drawn a response from me. The response is always essentially the same and is as follows:
Very few if any Division I programs who compete in football will ever add Men's Lacrosse for a couple of reasons. 1) Title IX. Those institutions who are not in compliance with Title IX will never add another men's sport. Those that are compliant probably will not add Men's Lacrosse because of finances. 2) Intercollegiate athletics operate as a business. There is absolutely no reason for a University or Institute (that's for my cross state rivals ) to add a sport that does not sustain itself. Varsity lacrosse provides for 12.6 scholarships at a cost of around $150,000 per scholarship for a total of 1.89 million, and that's just for the scholarships. To field a varsity team you must pay coaches, support staff, trainers, and managers' salaries, build a facility, locker rooms, training rooms, and weight room. Or at least make upgrades to these facilities to accommodate the lacrosse team, and provide for scholarships. I believe this makes adding a varsity program cost prohibitive for a vast majority of Division I schools.

On a completely different note I wouldn't want UGA to add a varsity program. I was fat, out of shape and at best a slightly above average goalie when I played, but was able win conference awards my junior and senior years. If we had a varsity team I never would have played after high school.

[LaxRef]

Varsity lacrosse provides for 12.6 scholarships at a cost of around $150,000 per scholarship for a total of 1.89 million, and that's just for the scholarships.

Can you explain this part? Why does a scholarship cost $150,000 per year unless tuition + room + board cost $150,000 per year? Unless you're looking at all 4 years, but then you need to divide your $1.89 million to get an annual cost. There's no reasonable way to state that the cost of 12.6 scholarships per year equates to the total cost over 4 years.

[Zeuslax]

I had the same question when it came to cost. I think he's refering to an average 4 year total cost.

We have to remember that a lot of programs don't get the full 12.6 scholarships right away. Some don't see the full package for years. I know a a few coaches that would much rather have another assistant than added scholarships, and this happens. In some cases it could be more cost effective depending on the educational costs.

[Waldo]

To clarify 150,000 is what it costs to endow a scholarship at UGA. Its a one time cost.

To play devil's advocate why would an Athletic Department that has a viable club program create a varsity program that is not fully funded (i.e. some programs don't see the 12.6 for years)? They have a club team that isn't funded at all from athletic funds. It just isn't going to happen.

[Zeuslax]

To play devil's advocate why would an Athletic Department that has a viable club program create a varsity program that is not fully funded (i.e. some programs don't see the 12.6 for years)? They have a club team that isn't funded at all from athletic funds. It just isn't going to happen.

[/quote]

I think I understand your point and I made the same statement earlier. Basically, I was just stating that 12.6 scholarships doesn't always happen. Sometimes programs start out with 5 or 6 and go from there. We often state the extreme case when it's not always that way. As SDSULAX stated when mentioning equipment allocation, we don't always see the total funding that many perceive.

[LAXDawg14]

OAKS and WALDO.... bring up very valid points....

[TheNino57]

Ahh yes, the wonderful world of shared, partial scholarships. And those "varsity" athletes will be heard complaining about the amount of scholarship money they are drawing by club players who are paying out of pocket for the opportunity to represent their school.

[StrykerFSU]

Now you guys are hitting cloer to home..think about how you would have felt if someone told you that the club was defucnt.