Outrage of the Day 11_11_06

[laxfan25]

I was pondering earlier that I'm sure many people look at Iraq and the bloodshed going on there as Sunnis wipe out Shiites and vice-versa and think "that's just crazy! Those people have to be nuts!" And I was remembering that it wasn't even a hundred years before I was born that the US was torn in two, with brothers fighting brothers in some cases over the issue of slavery. We are shocked at 100+ people a day dying in Iraq - what was the death toll in the Civil War? I honestly don't know, but I do know that the casualties in some of the battles was just ghastly, and they didn't have the medical backup that we are blessed with now. What a horrible thing that must have been to go through.

[sohotrightnow]

600,000+

[Beta]

The jamaican bobsled team costume was most likely based upon the movie "Cool Runnings"...in which all of the members (minus the coach...who didn't sled) were black. My male friend wore the dirty-nurse costume for halloween...was he insulting nurses...or women?

[StrykerFSU]

StrykerFSU wrote:
I never denied that racism was still present in our society and I condemn it whole heartedly but I feel that in this case the forces of political correctness went too far. Please don't turn that sentiment into something it is not.


Really?

Yep, just reread all my posts and I don't think I said anything that could be misconstrued as a denial of the existence of racism.

Your statement above implies that the only people that could be on the Jamaican bobsled team are blacks. There are white Jamaicans for your information and I would think they are eligible for team status.

I don't know, when I saw the picture I thought about the movie Cool Runnings though I also remember watching that original Jamaican bobsled team as a 10 year old kid and rooting for them because I had been to Jamaica so maybe I was predisposed to imagine that those were the four individuals meant to be represented by the costumes. I have acknowledged that painting oneself in blackface can be seen as insensitive by some but let's all take a deep breath here and keep in mind that these guys were most likely dressing as characters from a Disney movie.

And didn't we have a picture posted on this very website showing a guy dressed as a Catholic priest with a young boy attached to the front of his pants? Nary a complaint from the peanut gallery on that one. If I am willing to acknowledge that blackface is offensive, can't we at least honestly admit that there is a double standard?

I do look forward to gaining some understanding as to how millionaire athletes are victims of racism but then I only took two classes in African American Studies as an undergraduate and am probably not seeing the big picture.

[KnoxVegas]

I would suggest the book In Black and White: race and sports in America by Kenneth L. Shopshire.

Also the following articles:

http://www.counterpunch.org/zirin12012004.html

What you fail to see in sports beyond the money is that while it is fine for young, black male athletes to make money and find success on the field, the opportunities for ownership and front-office jobs are limited to them. Whites make up the overwhelming majority of the owners of major league sports. How many black coaches are there in the NFL? Managers in the MLB? How about GMs or team presidents? The message is that it is ok for ownership to make money off of black players but they are not allowed to coach or run teams. That is racism. Institutionalised racism.

In music, it is worse.

As for your comment about how you just assumed that the members of the Jamaican bobsled team had to be black, well that is stereotyping. Maybe not racist but it is stereotyping. I have been to Jamaica myself and know that there are more than one kind of Jamaican.

I am not attacking you. What is the matter with this whole thread is a) there seems to be a denial of racism in America; b) that racist behaviour is accepted. It is hard for a class that has enjoyed privilege based on nothing more than skin colour to have empathy for those of another skin colour who have been oppressed.

As for Chappelle's doing skits in whiteface, that is not seen as the smae as blackface because there is not decade upon decade of negative stereotypes attached to it.

Some more reading on blackface and little black Sambo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo_%28ethnic_slur%29

BTW before they were Bob' Big Boy restaruants, they were all named Sambo's.

[laxfan25]

Today's story highlights the discrepancy between the two Americas...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15704759/

AP - Decades after the civil rights movement, racial disparities in income, education and home ownership persist and, by some measurements, are growing.

White households had incomes that were two-thirds higher than blacks and 40 percent higher than Hispanics last year, according to data released Tuesday by the Census Bureau.

White adults were also more likely than black and Hispanic adults to have college degrees and to own their own homes. They were less likely to live in poverty.

“Race is so associated with class in the United States that it may not be direct discrimination, but it still matters indirectly,” said Dalton Conley, a sociology professor at New York University and the author of “Being Black, Living in the Red.”

“It doesn’t mean it’s any less powerful just because it’s indirect,” he said.

Home ownership grew among white middle-class families after World War II when access to credit and government programs made buying houses affordable. Black families were largely left out because of discrimination, and the effects are still being felt today, said Lance Freeman, assistant professor of urban planning at Columbia University and author of “There Goes the ’Hood.”

...Among the findings:

* Black adults have narrowed the gap with white adults in earning high school diplomas, but the gap has widened for college degrees. Thirty percent of white adults had at least a bachelor’s degree in 2005, while 17 percent of black adults and 12 percent of Hispanic adults had degrees.

* The gap in poverty rates has narrowed since 1980, but it remains substantial. The poverty rate for white residents was 8.3 percent on 2005. It was 24.9 percent for black residents, 21.8 percent for Hispanic residents and 11.1 percent for Asian residents.

“The wealth gap is not just a story of merit and achievement, it’s also a story of the historical legacy of race in the United Sates,” said Shapiro, author of “The Hidden Cost of Being African American.”

These are some of the facts that point to the continuing need for programs like affirmative action. Unfortunately the state of Michigan just passed a ballot proposal to outlaw affirmative action programs at the U of M, similar to a measure in effect in California. Since it was put into effect in CA, minority enrollment levels have declined.

[Beta]

Well going by those standards, 49% of Asian-Americans over the age of 25 have bachelor's degrees (http://www.asian-nation.org/14-statistics.shtml), whereas 30% of white people do, 17% black, 12% hispanic.

This is a gross disproportion amongst the races and we must implement a system like AA to help even the proportion between asians and white/black/hispanic US populations. Sarcasm. AA is inherently, by definition racism. AA pays attention to the person's color...which...according to AA shouldn't matter in the process of education, work, etc.

[laxfan25]

AA pays attention to the person's color...which...according to AA shouldn't matter in the process of education, work, etc.

No, according to the Constitution it shouldn't matter, but unfortunately it does, in very negative ways for blacks, Hispanics and women. Affirmative Action is an attempt to rectify some of those wrongs, and as the numbers show, we still have a ways to go.

[Beta]

AA pays attention to the person's color...which...according to AA shouldn't matter in the process of education, work, etc.

No, according to the Constitution it shouldn't matter, but unfortunately it does, in very negative ways for blacks, Hispanics and women. Affirmative Action is an attempt to rectify some of those wrongs, and as the numbers show, we still have a ways to go.

Truuuuuue, I mean I agree 100% agree that it shouldn't matter. But AA is more of a "fix" to a problem instead of coming up with an underlying solution. Prejudice happens from the jobgiver's standpoint...so having preferential treatment to someone based on things uncontrollable isn't really fair to either employee.

IMHO I dont think there is a fair way to combat racism...other than education from an early age and not imposing things that make race an issue.

[laxfan25]

But AA is more of a "fix" to a problem instead of coming up with an underlying solution.

In lieu of an underlying solution, I'll opt for the short-term fix. Not perfect, but better than just saying "that's the way things are" - at least in IMHO as well.
Peace.

[Beta]

I agree, the intitial attempt at solving a problem (while not possibly perfect) is indeed a step in the right direction.

[Danny Hogan]

ethan, why do you use so much canadian grammar?

[sohotrightnow]

IMHO I dont think there is a fair way to combat racism...other than education from an early age and not imposing things that make race an issue.

I really hope you are not this naive. You are aware of the fact that not everybody grows up in an area that stresses education nor is conducive to a productive learning environment. You can say that public education is available to everybody and you would be absolutely correct. However you are severely misguided if you believe that public schools in all-black neighborhoods have the same resources, teachers, and support as in all-white neighborhoods. Can you not see why AA is a necessary thing? What are poor minorities supposed to do? Move from their low-income area into the hills into a million dollar home so they can send their son/daughter to a better public school? Don't you think there is a reason why they live in these low-income areas? Do you possibly think that it was because they were denied an education and thus has carried over from generation to generation? Dear God man.

[Sonny]

IMHO I dont think there is a fair way to combat racism...other than education from an early age and not imposing things that make race an issue.

I really hope you are not this naive. You are aware of the fact that not everybody grows up in an area that stresses education nor is conducive to a productive learning environment. You can say that public education is available to everybody and you would be absolutely correct. However you are severely misguided if you believe that public schools in all-black neighborhoods have the same resources, teachers, and support as in all-white neighborhoods. Can you not see why AA is a necessary thing? What are poor minorities supposed to do? Move from their low-income area into the hills into a million dollar home so they can send their son/daughter to a better public school? Don't you think there is a reason why they live in these low-income areas? Do you possibly think that it was because they were denied an education and thus has carried over from generation to generation? Dear God man.

Maybe if students from low income areas had a choice in education they could improve their educational situation. But god forbid the Teachers Union allow choice to happen.

[Beta]

I really hope you are not this naive. You are aware of the fact that not everybody grows up in an area that stresses education nor is conducive to a productive learning environment. You can say that public education is available to everybody and you would be absolutely correct. However you are severely misguided if you believe that public schools in all-black neighborhoods have the same resources, teachers, and support as in all-white neighborhoods. Can you not see why AA is a necessary thing? What are poor minorities supposed to do? Move from their low-income area into the hills into a million dollar home so they can send their son/daughter to a better public school? Don't you think there is a reason why they live in these low-income areas? Do you possibly think that it was because they were denied an education and thus has carried over from generation to generation? Dear God man.

No...but the whole "fix it at the source" point I was trying to make was not said well enough I guess. Low income areas or poorly educated areas shouldn't be tied to AA, which is race-based..and not necessarily need-based. It should be the "norm" to make sure kids in these areas get the education they need, white, black, etc. Help should be given to everyone that needs it...not just "poor minorities" as you called it. And "denied" an education isnt necessarily true for everyone. There are many people that got out of situations like that.