Poll question (re: BCS Title game)

[Sonny]

(Stolen from tonight's ESPN 2 broadcast at SMU).... If there are two undefeated (BCS conference) teams at the end of the regular season AND one of them is from the Big East (i.e. Louisville, WVU, or Rutgers) -- Should the undefeated Big East champion play in the BCS Title game?

[bste_lax]

West Virginia - Yes
Louisville - Maybe/Yes
Rutgers - No

[DanGenck]

I saw WVU play against UConn in person. I think they could hold their own against Ohio State/Michigan. They probably wouldn't win... but that's what I said about their game against Georgia in the Sugar Bowl.

[Arklax]

Well, they all play each other, so once that's over, I think we can give a definite answer. For either Rutgers or Louisville to deserve it, they're going to have to thrash the other two. WV probably can't afford a sloppy win. If Auburn and Florida do meet in the SEC championship, it's going to be hard to keep the winner out the BCS title game.

[Rob Graff]

Explain to me how Ohio State is kept out if Michigan beats Ohio State (Rob H - don't flame me) in a 1 point game decided by a field goal?

Shouldn't the BCS title game be a rematch of such a game?

[bste_lax]

Explain to me how Ohio State is kept out if Michigan beats Ohio State (Rob H - don't flame me) in a 1 point game decided by a field goal?

Shouldn't the BCS title game be a rematch of such a game?

There might be a big enough gap between the top 2 and everyone else in the BCS, if that did happen, for there to be a rematch.

As a Big Ten guy, I would love to see this.

[Brent Burns]

I saw WVU play against UConn in person. I think they could hold their own against Ohio State/Michigan. They probably wouldn't win... but that's what I said about their game against Georgia in the Sugar Bowl.

Since you saw that game in person, is WVU more one-dimensional since they have a good running game, but what about the passing game? Down the road facing Louisville (this Thursday), Rutgers, Pittsburgh, etc., they would have to really have a very balanced offense to keep that going, don't they?

On the other hand, I will still say, Go Mountaineers! That is my mom's birthplace. Still love those WVU hills.

[Sonny]

Explain to me how Ohio State is kept out if Michigan beats Ohio State (Rob H - don't flame me) in a 1 point game decided by a field goal?

Shouldn't the BCS title game be a rematch of such a game?

The loser of that game will fall in the BCS rankings (at the last second). Teams 3, 4, or 5 would move up. The BCS Title game has to take No. 1 and No. 2 in the rankings. I doubt there is a scenario where the loser of that game would stay No. 1 or No 2.

[Beta]

Man, it's a good thing there's no playoff system to fix a problem like this....

[DanGenck]

I saw WVU play against UConn in person. I think they could hold their own against Ohio State/Michigan. They probably wouldn't win... but that's what I said about their game against Georgia in the Sugar Bowl.

Since you saw that game in person, is WVU more one-dimensional since they have a good running game, but what about the passing game? Down the road facing Louisville (this Thursday), Rutgers, Pittsburgh, etc., they would have to really have a very balanced offense to keep that going, don't they?

On the other hand, I will still say, Go Mountaineers! That is my mom's birthplace. Still love those WVU hills.

Pat White is not going to win any games with his arm. However, the basic point of the spread offense is that it forces favorable match-ups usually without the back-up help of a safety on defense. Any quarterback can succeed with good split ends in Cover 9... not to mention if you can run the ball too (on the other side of the coin, this is why VY and Vick have struggled in the NFL where the spread offense is not viable).

If a team can stuff the run and force WVU to pass, then eventually that will lead to turnovers as White is not a prolific passer. However, WVU has shown that they are EXTREMELY patient with the run. They are not the kind of program to abandon a game plan and that's how they explode in the second half.

Thursday night will be telling. We shall see.

[DanGenck]

Explain to me how Ohio State is kept out if Michigan beats Ohio State (Rob H - don't flame me) in a 1 point game decided by a field goal?

Shouldn't the BCS title game be a rematch of such a game?

The bottom line is that teams should not have to beat each other more than once in a season. The greatness of football is that every game is important. If Ohio State loses to Michigan, most voters will give another team the benefit of the doubt because of the ideology of, "Ohio State had their chance, they didn't win, move on."

I agree with you, though... Ohio State would probably be the #2 team, but most voters would kick them down a spot or two.

Michigan vs. Ohio State in the National Championship Game would be amazing. The hype would be more than we could stand.

[Beta]

It will all depend on how close the game is. If it's a blowout, then someone is droppin hard. If it's a close game...then we'll see what the "educated voters" say. Personally, I dont think someone that doesn't win their conference deserves a National Championship bid. Oklahoma didnt win their conference and they went, and lost. The same thing with Nebraska before that. Michigan being ranked #2 is beyond me, considering their schedule. They played Notre Dame...we won't go there and beat Penn State by 7 points. And it's not like the "I was #2 in my conference but I would be #1 in yours judging by our record" crap. When Michigan plays a Florida, LSU, Tenn (SEC) schedule, then they can talk about deserving the BCS title game when they can't win their conference.

[LaxRef]

Personally, I dont think someone that doesn't win their conference deserves a National Championship bid.

The bottom line is that teams should not have to beat each other more than once in a season.

These personal premises about how football should work are exctly the reason a playoff is needed. Not everyone starts with the same premises, so no one agrees on the results.

As I am forced to bring up with remarkable regularity on this forum, Arrow's Impossibility Theorem states that with any voting system (e.g., the polls which are a big part of the B(C)S sytem, the B(C)S computer rankings) with more than 3 options, there will necessarily be situations in which it fails. You can tweak the B(C)S all you like, add in more little rules, and it still won't work, because these tweaks can't make something impossible sudedenly possible.

With a playoff, you can look at the beginning of the season and say, "If we go undefeated, we will win the national championship." With the BCS, you can go undefeated and not even get to go to a lower-tier BCS bowl.

[Sonny]

Just one factoid... for all the crap that that has been heaped upon the BCS - They have gotten in right two of the last four years: Miami/Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl and last year in the Rose Bowl (Texas/USC). Some people have a short memory.

[Beta]

Personally, I dont think someone that doesn't win their conference deserves a National Championship bid.

The bottom line is that teams should not have to beat each other more than once in a season.

These personal premises about how football should work are exctly the reason a playoff is needed. Not everyone starts with the same premises, so no one agrees on the results.

Everything we say on a message board is personal premise unless we're quoting it from specific fact that is an established set of rules. What do you think every poll that has ever existed is comprised of? Individual personal opinion. If there was a playoff system (like there should be) there would be less stress about the BCS computer #1 and #2 rankings and no reason to complain about what it ranks the top spots which are at most fought over by 2-10 teams like it is today. If I were a voter, I would vote that exact same way about a team not winning their conference not getting to play in the National Championship game over a team that won their conference...as would some others. But with a playoff system, there would be several non conference winners and that's ok since they'd earn their spot. So unless there are set, non-voting guidelines for how to make the playoffs (if it were to exist)...it would have to be based off of votes.