Should A Division Teams be Able to play in the B Division?

[nhoskins]

What's the difference between losing meaningful games in A Division, and winning meaningless games in B Division?

If I had "no chance" of making the playoffs in either league, be it through league regulations (in B as an A team) or through inability to win games (in A as an A team), I'd at least be motivated as a player to win individual accolades like league allstar awards. Why play in a league you can't win or go to the playoffs in?

[Band]

Because some of us enjoy a good competitive game of lacrosse. How is a 25-2 blowout more "meaningful" than a hardfought 9-8 win in OT?

[Dan Wishengrad]

Maybe you are missing my point, I'll try with less sarcasm.

Idaho didn't open the '06 season until Feb 25th/26th weekend doubleheader at UO and OSU. Then you didn't play again until a single "day trip" game at Gonzaga on April Fool's day. You finished up with three home games over the next two weeks in April. You had almost all of February off and wasted the entire month of March without playing a single game. These were open weekends when you could schedule some of those competitive 9-8 type games you are speaking of, against PNCLL B teams.

If it's not a competetive thing -- if your team instead is pleading financial hardship for taking one real road-trip on a 6-game season, well that is a different conversation.

[Hi-Line Lax]

I don't buy the financial argument at all...every team has trouble coming up with the money to play, if you can't do it you shouldn't be in the league...period. Our travel budget is typically the highest for conference games (it is every year) and we don't make it an issue...yet we listen to teams at the league meeting every year complaining about raising their dues to $300 per person, come on. (BTW- If anyone is interested in some of the fundraising ideas we have had lately, shoot me an e-mail)
Also, Montana never asked to move down to B...the divisions were re-aligned 3 years ago because of new national procedures and WWU, PLU, Gonzaga, SFU, & Montana all moved down (with SFU & Gonzaga then petitioning to move up). I don't think that the Div 1-A Football guide is a good one, but it's what is in place.

[skypny]

Before anyone goes harassing our scheduling, it should be noted that Idaho has at least 3 B division games scheduled for 07, with Montana, Linfield, and Albertsons.

[Sonny]

Before anyone goes harassing our scheduling, it should be noted that Idaho has at least 3 B division games scheduled for 07, with Montana, Linfield, and Albertsons.

No one is "harassing" your schedule Brian. Just a respectful friendly discussion. Please don't take things personally.

[Kyle Berggren]

Marylin may know, or Dave, even Dan, but I'll bet the B teams have larger league dues than the A... We play more games, 2 more games. Home or away, add $500 to your league cost, plus travel. Financial reasons are not the reason to move down, & quite frankly, they don't make the slightest bit of sense.

The point Dan is trying to make is that Whitman (& probably Albertson) would have loved to play Idaho on an off weekend (& when you play 6 games, there are a lot of off weekends). Idaho didn't bother to try. The other point he made was that UW had nearly the exact same record last season, except they scheduled two B teams & pulled one out against Idaho (I believe the game was tied at the end of 3 says the game report).

The cycle or losing argument is tough to stomach, as we've all done it. All the top teams dealt with it, Montana, Oregon, well not SFU, PLU, WWU, Linfield, even SOU. After our astounding year last year I have 20 rookies to work with (it will probably cut down to 7-8)... At our first team meeting a player asked how we did in 06, & I laughed & said lets not talk about it, we'll just be better this year. No one quit. If you think you have players at Idaho, talk to Kevin at Montana on how to instantly put a program together by capturing those players. He'll have some ideas for you that worked in Montana.

[Kyle Berggren]

Congrats on getting those games scheduled! That's exactly what you need to do to be pro-active & we all love to see it. I would have included this in my previous post, but that post wasn't up yet.

And for the record, this is all just my personal opinion, not league policy, not the board's view, but me trying to work out my own opinion. You guys have actually changed my opinion on a couple of issues inside this one, but I'm still against it. We've got to find a way to foster the growth of an A team, just not at the expense of others.

[Dan Wishengrad]

Good job getting those games scheduled, Vandals! My guess is that this will go a long way towards mitigating the frustrations of the past two seasons, and if UI can win a couple games then your guys will have alot more fun this coming season.

And congrats on getting UI grad student Ryan Hanavan to agree to coach the Idaho lacrosse club. Having a real Head Coach should also help improve your fortunes immeasurably.

[TheNino57]

Because some of us enjoy a good competitive game of lacrosse. How is a 25-2 blowout more "meaningful" than a hardfought 9-8 win in OT?

Take a look at the '06 schedule and take special note of games 1085 and 1094. It happens in Division B also, my friends.

[Ryan Hanavan]

How is the UI lacrosse team different from the UI football team?

1. I'm much better looking than Dennis Erickson.
2. I think football is too slow and should only be played when there is nothing else to do.

I do think Dennis and I would both agree that building a successful and sustainable program is the first and most important priority. Someday lacrosse can and will be a household sport in this region.

[Shawn Carman]

Agreed!

[Linfield]

For what its worth...Linfield, Southern, and Western joined together for the Fall Classic this weekend. While U of O and the Griz were too much to handle, we did beat University of Washington in overtime and had a goal disallowed due to a hole in the net that would have put another point on the board for us. It seems to me the despite two losses it was a great time, and B League lacrosse in Oregon got a little better and the bonds between teams got a little stronger.

Goes to show you that its not always about talent in A versus B.

[kladis]

Goes to show you that its not always about talent in A versus B.

I'm going to chime in here real quick and say my peace.

Its not at all about "talent in A vs. B" Its about making the most out of the talent you've got. Thats what club sports are. They take the students at a school, make a team out of them, and then see how closely they can reach their potential.

The players that Division A schools get are the exact same as the Division B schools. They are all from the same general high schools and areas and have the same general talent levels with few exceptions. Nobody "recruits" in club lacrosse. If they do, its irresponsible influencing decisions for it. If a player attends a school based on their club lacrosse team, their life is confused, I pitty them unless its their true passion in which case I envy them! The only difference is the Division A teams have the structures and backgrounds to achieve. Many B programs do as well now as the sport grows, and therefore, they are reaching the same levels as the A programs. The slight difference, is Division A schools are generally larger in terms of student body. This subsequently means a larger pool of potential lacrosse players. However, I've learned in the past 6 years, that that doesn't matter. a roster of 50 vs. a roster of 23 isn't as drammatic of a different, you can only have 10 on the field at a time!

I'll use my personal experience with Gonzaga.

We have never "recruited" a single player. Each year, we have a meeting, and then we start to practice, and the coaches job is to make the team the best possible with the players who show up-thats it. The program has always had a shallow roster, never given a scholarship or brought in some blue-chip player. However, Gonzaga has made the playoffs 6 years in a row-more than any other program in the PNCLL!!* (notice the astrict because I think SFU would have without their eligibility mistake they took responsibility for).

My point is this, it doesn't matter how many players you get, it doesn't matter where they come from, it doesn't matter what division you are in. What matters is how hard the team works each year to reach their potential. Montana is the best example of this. 3 years ago, they were not structured, they were not successful. Now, they continue to get the same kinds of "students" (thats for Kevin) to the school, but they've added structure, hard work, and some smart coaching influences, and now look at them. Its a damn nighmare trying to figure out how to beat them.

Stop talking about the leagues, the splits, the school sizes, the geographical implications, etc. Get your team together in a room, look at each other, and then figure out how you can be the best possible with the guys in the room. Everything else will work itself out.

Happy Holidays. Cheers!

[Rids]

Here's an interesting thought from an outsider to the PNCLL. Why not invite senior men's teams out for a run? Instead of traveling to play a B division team why not invite a senior men's team down from Calgary for a weekend of games? I know of at least one senior men's team from up here that was looking for competition to play against before the summer of tournaments.

If two schools like Idaho and Washington St (picking on them due to geography) would go together and host a pair of teams from up north it might be a weekend of good lacrosse that otherwise would be a weekend without lacrosse.