Sleepers

[Kyle Berggren]

You are absolutely correct in regards to recruiting & pool of players to choose from. An influx of talent each & every year is absolutely a giant help in building a team, and the WOU's & SOU's of the world will have an advantage in that regard over a school the size of Whitman.

In 5-10 years, with lax growing so quickly on the west coast, you may be right. SOU & WOU will be more likely to have experienced players on the field. WWU is a good example of that. Lots of Western Washington players end up at WWU, and hence they have a ton of experienced/talented players. Now can you replace a Noah S (can't spell it & I'm not going to try, the WWU Goalie) with a rookie that's never played before? No way. But players like Brett Bartell (old PLU keeper) were developed at school & are some of the best players at their position that we've seen in our conference. Ryan "Gus" Tootell was another example of picking up a stick in college. My vision of a team consists of the solid dedicated core individuals, regardless of the recruits that come in the door. Sure I'd love a Liam Millheiser whenever possible, but its nothing that can't be overcome in the long run.

[woulax23]

excellent point sir, i can completely see that point of view. We will be having some players coming back next year for only their third season of lacrosse, but also coming back for their third year with our team. That kind of experience and chemistry can not be replaced by a first year who has experience. I think one of the hardest parts is picking up and training guys who will be back the next season, a reality that we faced this last season. Of our team in '05 during our first year in the league there were only 4 of our 17 or 18 players who had experience. Somehow we were able to get the 13 or so new players working well together and playing well enought o make the playoffs, but out of those 17 guys we only returned seven. So we basically had to recruit a whole new group of guys who had never touched sticks before and retrain the team. So i think a huge factor in the future is going to be, not just recruits who have experience, but also getting guys who will be willing to make a four year commitment to the team. I really think it will be tough for any team to compete really well if they keep getting first years who are athletes, whom they have to train each year, and can not hang onto their experience.

[Blake]

Personally, I'm not sure how UPS didn't make it to the playoffs this year. Going in to our game against them we looked at their record and felt like we had a guaranteed victory. Then as soon as we saw them warming up we knew that we were incorrect, and ended up losing in a one goal heart breaker. Still probably my favorite game of my final season. If they aren't the definition of a sleeper, I don't know what is. They had one attackman with an original all white cascade that was just awesome to watch. Not sure what his name was, but the way he moved you could tell he just felt the rythm of the game. Nothing flashy, just smooth and productive.

My take on the whole 1 or 2 player situation is a little different though. Getting one or two key players CAN turn you program around in the short run. However, putting yourself in a position to compete every year requires a solid base. I know what Kyle is talking about because my high school team had that kind of chemistry (plus Cody Hart transferring from a high school in Utah...go figure). However, for instance, I think if we had two or three awesome midfielders to add to our roster at Albertson last year, we would have AT LEAST been a playoff squad, if not a semi-final squad.

And here's to hoping (again) that Albertson is one of those sleepers...Go Yotes.

[stearns]

I haven't been keeping up on the forum recently, but I couldn't help but chime in with some corrections and reflections. First, re: Julian's post on Whitman's current situation:

sleepers:

solid keeper returning and a saavy young attackmen in drake highlight this squad for me. steno's a fast, athletic pole, but he might be lost in the mix next year in the absence of jeurgens and sterns.

stop smoking rocks, dude. your scouting suffers. drake is going to be the one of the oldest guys on the team next year, and might be at either attack or midfield (where he played this past season) for his senior year. Also, regardless of how athletic steno is or isn't, there is zero chance that he'll be lost in mix without jeurgens and myself, because neither of us are leaving. Our back line won't change at all, so steno will probably stay on as a lsm.

I also wanted to share some anecdotal evidence with the forum about the ability of smaller schools (like Whitman) to be competitive. In high-school, I played for Oregon Episcopal School in the Portland area. During my stint in high school, the league in portland exploded from 9 teams my freshman year to almost thirty my senior year (2002). Everyone was talking about how impossible it was for a school of only 240 students to stay competitive with teams like lincoln and southridge coming into their own. Instead of getting lost in the pack, though, OES has made it to every state final since 2003, winning in 2004. This just goes to show that it's not about how many people you are choosing your core players from, but who those players end up being. You just never know where the really good players are going to end up. OES' success come from an amazing coaching staff developing a small but focused group of players who believe they can scrap it out with teams like lakeridge and LO. Whitman could do the same.

[lincoln02]

thanks for the update sterns.

glad we'll play together again.

hope you're having a good summer.

you playing any fall tournements?

[WouMiddie]

it really helps oes that the there coach has had to pretty solid kids come through his program who have been on the team for every state champ trip, plus lakeridge beat them the last two years. we'll c if they can keep it up without vanhatcher there to save the offense. and the drug comments are pretty petty.

[lincoln02]

^don't worry, sterns and i go back...

...that and i'm rather slender.

thanks for havin' my back.

cheers.

[stearns]

word on the street is that we're going to try and make the boise tourney, even w/o our goalie and drake, but we're going to have to see what the turnout for fall ball is.

The fact that OES' success came largely from a couple of extraordinary players is exactly my point: given a small squad of people who at least know what they're doing, a couple of ballers can take a team really far. It's beside the point that they've lost to lakeridge, all I meant to point out was that they've been more than competitive in the league as a whole, despite their small size.

I'm genuinely sorry if my comment about drugs came across as petty. I only brought it up because I care. If I'd been trying to be petty I would have, for example, brought up Julian's inability to perform sexually.

[Steno]

oh burn

[lincoln02]

...i guess i do seem a little cracked out on the sideline sometimes.

this might be thread of the year material right here.

[Juergy]

or methed out...so low

[chonk]

I think that the main hole in your point about OES is that they lack some of the traditional sports programs that usually draw the athletes. For example, OES doesn't have a football program, I'm pretty sure they lack a baseball team as well. It might not be important that OES is a private school in the heart of the Portland area drawing youth talent and raising them from young age through high school... Yeah, I can see how OES compares to some of these college teams....

[TheNino57]

All of that came from having a core group of Jr's & Sr's that instilled their passion in the Freshman. It probably sounds simple or obvious, but most teams simply don't do it.

This is much more easily said than done. In my experience, I find that the players who come to our program from high school programs have a more difficult time catching on to the dedication being practiced and preached by the upper classmen. It is easier to instill these values in the players who pick up the game once arriving at the school. Players with previous experience bring with them their old habits and philosophies pounded into them by past coaches. Since most players aren't "recruited" (to the extent of how a varsity player is recruited) in the PNCLL, players arrive feeling like the team should conform to them and their needs as opposed to the player conforming to the team and its needs. This is not, by any means, always the case. This is just what I have noticed.

[Ryan Hanavan]

All of that came from having a core group of Jr's & Sr's that instilled their passion in the Freshman. It probably sounds simple or obvious, but most teams simply don't do it.

This is much more easily said than done. In my experience, I find that the players who come to our program from high school programs have a more difficult time catching on to the dedication being practiced and preached by the upper classmen. It is easier to instill these values in the players who pick up the game once arriving at the school. Players with previous experience bring with them their old habits and philosophies pounded into them by past coaches. Since most players aren't "recruited" (to the extent of how a varsity player is recruited) in the PNCLL, players arrive feeling like the team should conform to them and their needs as opposed to the player conforming to the team and its needs. This is not, by any means, always the case. This is just what I have noticed.

I think it really depends on the programs these guys are coming from and suspect things will evolve. I've seen many football to lacrosse coach converts out here. That's not a bad thing, but it takes that coach time to develop and become a lacrosse coach and his earliest teams will show these differences the most. It also depends on how willing the coaches are to becoming lacrosse coaches. I've been in Moscow for the past 2 years and been able to work with the kids in the community and that has been great, but my main objective has been to help some of the parents with coaching aspirations to become coaches. I've also been a ref for the local high school teams in this time and I have been able to see the good and bad habits being handed down.

With all that being said, the majority of our current team are freshman. For the most part, they have all been very coachable and very willing to step up their game, even the ones with tempers (which is also something that always needs to be handled). I like that some have some lacrosse experience because it helps the handfull of guys that have never played. We also have a few Sr's and Jr's that have responded as team leaders, giving the new batch something to look up to. Overall it has created a great dynamic that I have been able to watch evolve from the first practice I had with them in the fall, through a few good and bad fall games, to our spring practices.

and on a side note, I just watched some local WA/ID carpet store commercial and some little girl was walking around with a lacrosse stick in her hand...

[chonk]

You realize don't you, that little girls with lax sticks are the devil, and mama said.... Yea, I saw that commercial too.