If Iran disappeared, would anyone really care?

[sohotrightnow]

I think it has to do with the fact that the middle eastern region is ridiculously unstable. And Israel is a nation that is easier to deal with politically, as well as doesn't put up with anyone's crap (see 6-Day "War", Yom Kippur War, War of Attrition).

You're joking right? Easier to deal with politically? Doesn't take anyone's crap? Those are the reasons we are allies with them?

[Riss]

Can I ask the conservatives on this board something? Why do you feel the need to support Israelis thousands of miles away, when the Jewish people in the U.S. primarily could give two craps about, a.k.a. despise, your policies domestically? Yes, I know there are some conservative Jewish people, but they are few and far between. Is all your unadulterated support for Israel based on religious principles?

I personally don't believe our support of Israel is based upon religious reasons. Because if it were, wouldn't the United States (mostly a Christian-region), be more supportive of a culture that respects Jesus (that culture being Muslim, Islam, etc) or of a culture that doesn't believe in him (Jewish).

I think it has to do with the fact that the middle eastern region is ridiculously unstable. And Israel is a nation that is easier to deal with politically, as well as doesn't put up with anyone's crap (see 6-Day "War", Yom Kippur War, War of Attrition).

Actually christian fundamentalists (a powerful part of the conservative base) believe that the Jews returning to Israel is prelude to the second coming of Christ and the apocalypse, according to biblical prophecy. This of course means that all those who have not accepted Jesus as their saviour will be killed once Christ rises up. Let me tell you we have a good laugh around the dinner table about the irony of our biggest supporters believing that one day we will be vanquished from the earth. Love it!

[Beta]

Actually christian fundamentalists (a powerful part of the conservative base) believe that the Jews returning to Israeli is prelude to the second coming of Christ and the apocalypse, according to biblical prophecy.

Ahhhhh yes, you're right. I completely forgot about that. Apparently that 5 years of Catholic school obviously paid off

[TexOle]

Israel is an ally, and you support your allies. As a Compassionate Conservative it was really hard to support Israel in this latest conflict.

I believe there is a lot of good in this world. Most of the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, the United States of America, Israel, and other places are good. The problem is that with good comes evil. Yes, those people that I feel are evil probably think I am evil. Our biggest problem is that we fail to see the good in people. The issue is not the people of these countries, but some of the people who are in power. Some people might believe these leaders are right in some of their views. It is important to think about what our goal is in each objective. I believe once we start seeing the good in this world, then we can help to root out that which is evil.

I will get back to the second coming later. I have a voice lesson in 10 minutes and Revelation discussions take time. All Minnesota people and others who know me are now free to laugh.

[Danny Hogan]

Can I ask the conservatives on this board something? Why do you feel the need to support Israelis thousands of miles away, when the Jewish people in the U.S. primarily could give two craps about, a.k.a. despise, your policies domestically? Yes, I know there are some conservative Jewish people, but they are few and far between. Is all your unadulterated support for Israel based on religious principles?

what is your take on the Israel/Hezbollah thing?

[sohotrightnow]

How does that address my question?

[laxfan25]

The people are great the gov't sucks. PERIOD

Some people may make that statement about gov'ts closer to home...

[StrykerFSU]

I don't think it should come as any surprise that most Americans support Israel. We share common Christian-Judeo values, they have a westernized democracy, and there is a large Aemrican Jewish population to name three major reason off the top of my head. I also don't think the finger should be pointed at conservatives for supporting Israel. The United States has been an ally of Israel's since its creation through Republican and Democrat presidencies alike. In fact, wasn't a Democrat in office when Israel was founded? Also, when this conflict broke out I seem to remember many Democrats, Hillary Clinton for example, publicly denouncing the actions of Hezbollah and supporting Israel so I hardly feel it is only conservatives who "feel the need to support Israel". I also must disagree with the assertion that American Jews could "give two craps" about what happens in Israel. Only the most narrow minded isolationist would have a world view like that one.

What has changed is the climate of global politics. In the past when Israel bumped heads with its Arab neighbors, we were able to sit on the sidelines because these conflicts were regional in nature and the US had bigger fish to fry in trying to contain the spread of communism. You can view those smaller conflicts as proxies for the wider fight against communism because of our support of Israel and the Soviet Union's support of just about all of the Arab states but the fact was that we didn't have to worry about the fighting reaching our shores. That rule does not hold in today's conflict. While Israel may fight Hezbollah on the ground in Lebanon, we must worry about Hezbollah, al Quaeda, and muderers of their ilk attacking our citizens around the globe. The US and Israel have a very real and very tangible enemy in common justifying our support of Israel.

[Danny Hogan]

How does that address my question?

who do you think is at fault?

what do you think israel should have been israel's response to the kidnappings?

which actions of either side particularly bother you?

do you consider hezbollah a terrorist organization?

[sohotrightnow]

Stryker, you misread my statements. I said Jewish people, by and large, do not support the domestic Republican agenda.

As far as my take on this situation, I am a bit torn. On the one hand, it bothers me to no end that a large percantage of people feel that we need to support Israel no matter what. I mean, people are aware that some Jewish people in the U.S. don't necessarily support Israeli policies, much like Americans who don't support U.S. policies abroad.

For example, I was watching my favorite channel yesterday, Fox News, and I saw a commerical to donate money to Israel in their time of need and for all the losses they have suffered. Last time I checked, Lebanon suffered 10x as many deaths as Israel did, but FNC would lead you to believe that Hezbollah drobbed an atomic bomb on Israel. People seem to believe that Israel has a right to defend themselves, and I do too...every country should be able to. However, we seem to determine which countries can and can't. Some other place in the ME comes to mind, that begins with I and ends in R.

Why am I to believe that Israel would simply stop attacking Lebanon, even if Hezbollah stopped firing rockets? What if Hezbollah wasn't firing rockets? What if the Lebanese army (or lack thereof) was firing rockets....would it make a difference? In the hearts of many people in the U.S., it does not make a difference because we have been led to believe that we need to defend Israel at all costs. But why? Are all Israeli tactics acceptable? Are all the attacks by Israelis against Palestinians in the past and present provoked attacks? Do people not think that may lead to some built-up resentment in, oh, I don't know, almost every country in the Middle East?

[StrykerFSU]

Why do you feel the need to support Israelis thousands of miles away, when the Jewish people in the U.S. primarily could give two craps about, a.k.a. despise, your policies domestically?

I will give it another try then...The US supports its ally because foreign policy decisions are not based on short-sighted reasoning such as most American Jews are Democrats so a Republican led government should not support Israeli Jews.

I have seen the commercial you refer to and did not think it was out of line at all. I also do not think FNC has misrepresented the violence brought by Hezbollah upon Israel. Furthermore, while the commercial appears on FNC I do not remember any mention of the network in the commercial or any endorsement of it by any FNC employees. This commercial is no different than any that might have aired following the attack on 9/11.

Why am I to believe that Israel would simply stop attacking Lebanon, even if Hezbollah stopped firing rockets?

Israel was not attacking Lebanon, they were attacking Hezbollah.

What if Hezbollah wasn't firing rockets?

But still murdering and kidnapping Israeli soldiers?

What if the Lebanese army (or lack thereof) was firing rockets....would it make a difference?

The Lebanese army was supposed to be controlling the areas around the border but I'm not even sure they are relevant to the discussion.

[Danny Hogan]

you say israel can defend itself, isn't that what they are doing?

[sohotrightnow]

I also do not think FNC has misrepresented the violence brought by Hezbollah upon Israel.

So, FNC has displayed a "fair and balanced" approach as they normally do correct? There have been a proportionate amount of stories denouncing Israel as well as Hezbollah? You keep on speaking about this violence against Israel as if mass murder on a large scale took place. Just look at the numbers! Or, should you choose not to, examine the number of Palestinians who have been killed over the years compared to Israelis. Yet, each and every day we are force-fed the same crap over and over... Palestinians are the "bad people", Israel is our ally...we have to support them no matter what. I am not anti-Israel at all, but why do we have to believe that just because they are our ally, they are not beyond the realm of commiting atrocities?

Israel was not attacking Lebanon, they were attacking Hezbollah.

So, am I to believe that the disproportionate amount of deaths to Lebanese civilians was due to the fact that Hezbollah was hiding in civilian neighborhoods, despite the fact that the IDF said they would be targeting certain areas. Civilians were fleeing the areas, and they were still killed!Please, give me a break. Civilian casualties are of no consequence to the IDF or Hezbollah. If I seem to remember during this incident, the IDF were responsible for the deaths of 4 UN inspectors, not Hezbollah.

People are so quick to jump on Hezbollah for going into Israel and kidnapping soldiers, but it is ok for Israel's army to go into Lebanon!!! That makes sense to you? Are they defending Israel or are they invading Lebanon?

[Zeuslax]

We're all simplifying things a little considering this isn't the place to write a thesis, but I think I understand where you're coming from.

Israel was not attacking Lebanon, they were attacking Hezbollah.

Whether Israel was "directly" attacking Hezbollah (I've been seeing it spelled Hizbollah recently by the way), Lebanon and its people have been taking a heavy toll. I have a friend and her family that are trapped there currently. The infrastructure is blown to shreds, don't mistake attacks on Hezbollah as not being attacks on the state of Lebanon. The Lebanese people are screaming to the world to get this to stop. The country and it's people are basically held hostage in all of this. Lebanon is basically a brand new country that was just starting to get its bearings. Beruit was a hopping place and considered last year to be the one of the top 10 night life spots in the world. It's an amazing city and was really starting to come back into its own.

The Lebanese army was supposed to be controlling the areas around the border but I'm not even sure they are relevant to the discussion.

And the UN was suppose to be overseeing this part of the country. As we all know they did a heck of a job. Who didn't despise the pictures of the Hezbollah flag flying next to the UN flag at one of the UN's main observation posts. Syria still has a strangle hold over Lebanon, and many saw Hezbollah's control of this part of the country as there only buffer to an Israeli attack. So they were allowed to flourish. Anyway, Hezbollah is stronger than its military at this time.


4 years ago. The US tried to sell Israel large enough bunker blaster bombs, but were turned down at the time by the general who is now leading this campaign for the Israelis. They know where a majority of the rockets are being stored and fired from, but they don't have strong enough weapons to reach them. That's why a rush order was placed a few weeks ago by the Israeli's for the same weapon they said they didn't need previously. We'll probably see another go around here in the next few weeks once they get these in hand.

It seems to be coming out. A little each day. This was a trial run to see what would happen if we were to go into Iran.

[StrykerFSU]

If you don't like how FNC covers world events...don't watch it. There is CNN, the BBC, or you and 19 of your friends could get together and double the ratings for MSNBC.[/quote]