Not a surprise

[StrykerFSU]

I don't think that you can make American soldiers fighting armed terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan and the members of the SS responsible for the systematic murder of civilians morally equivalent.

Historical note: I'm not a WWII scholar but I believe that only high ranking Nazi party officials were found guilty of war crimes for the Holocaust and the guards who were "just obeying orders" were in fact shown mercy.

[Riss]

Your arguments are so filacious that I can no longer engage in civil debate with you. As a Jew, a person who lost many family members in the Holocaust and as an American, I find it shocking that you compare the majority of our military as to that of the Nazis. There are a few bad apples, but we do not systematically murder innocents.

[sohotrightnow]

Oh man, this is too easy. This is not my argument. This is from one of your beloved soldiers: http://gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... editorials

[Riss]

Historical note: I'm not a WWII scholar but I believe that only high ranking Nazi party officials were found guilty of war crimes for the Holocaust and the guards who were "just obeying orders" were in fact shown mercy.

Actually the "just obeying orders" was not deemed an acceptable defense at the Nuremburg trials. Ok now Im done I promise

[Campbell]

Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee (Tom Cruise): I think I'm entitled to them.
Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I want the truth!
Jessep: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

[laxfan25]

Well it's good to see that extremism isn't limited just to Islamists!
As I said earlier, I fully support our troops, and am slightly amazed that the miltary justice system is functioning like it is. Last night I read the statements from the soldiers that did the rape and murder - it's enough to make you puke. As misguided as our mission is over there, they certainly weren't following orders.
It may be reflective of the type of "candidates" that the recruiters are bringing in as of late. They are under intense pressure to meet the numbers, and it certainly seems like the vetting process is not being thoroughly done. There is one solution to that problem which would raise the caliber of soldier - reinstate the draft! Ah, I can hear the ringing cheers of endorsement of that idea.
What's really sad is that the actions of a limited few have done more to hurt America's interests than just about anything else that has happened over there - except for Abu Ghraib. (And in that case a strong case can be made that they were following orders).
It can also be said that those that are calling for a planned pullout of our troops are giving them the highest level of support - get them out of a warzone that was the result of faulty intelligence, pathetic planning and egregious execution. Why should more lives be lost for this failure?
The argument of course is that Iraq would descend into chaos, but I have a hard time understanding how it could be worse than what it is now. A commentator a while back said that it doesn't matter how long we stay there (even 10 years) - once we leave all hell will break loose. The goal was to bring democracy to a united Iraq, and instead we will likely end up with three countries; Kurdistan (which is already a defacto separate state), Sunniland in the middle and Shiiteville in the south. Whether we want it or not, I am willing to wager that that is the final outcome.

[laxfan25]

Another way of understanding how people feel about the US in the midEast...
Fidel Castro decided that America would be better served under a socialist regime (and he heard the US had weapons of mass destruction), so he decided to topple our "elected" leader, feeling that the "people" would come out with flowers and candy for our liberators.
An intense bombing campaign was begun. Intel said that some holdouts were hiding in the Wategate Towers, so it was leveled. Yes, a few hundred innocents died as well, but they were intent on getting rid of the insurgents that were hiding among them..
Meanwhile, in your neighborhood the occupying troops invade your house, rape your young daughter/sister and then slaughter your entire family. Afterwards they held a barbecue.
How would all of this make you feel?
Perhaps you can understand why normal, right-thinking people might be tempted to support anyone that is against the occupiers?

[Hackalicious]

I don't think that you can make American soldiers fighting armed terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan and the members of the SS responsible for the systematic murder of civilians morally equivalent.

Historical note: I'm not a WWII scholar but I believe that only high ranking Nazi party officials were found guilty of war crimes for the Holocaust and the guards who were "just obeying orders" were in fact shown mercy.

People need to chill out a bit. We're not the Nazis. Even Saddam's Iraq wasn't Nazi Germany.

It's interesting that you characterize every person we fight as a "terrorist". Certainly, Al Qaeda and the people blowing up civilians and mosques are terrorists.

But, what about someone who only attacks the American military? They consider themselves patriots defending their homeland from foreign invasion.

Failure to distinguish the two will create more of both.

[StrykerFSU]

If you read what I wrote, it is clear that I am NOT the one equating US troops to the Nazis and am as disturbed as anyone that someone would even put us in the same sentence.

I agree with laxfan25 that Iraq will break apart into 3 countries based on religion. We will see a repeat of what happened in the Balkans when the arbitrarily constructed Yugoslovia collapsed. The main concern would be that Iran would gain control of Shiia Iraq. I don't think anyone wants Iran to gain more power in the Middle East. Yeah, I know that's not why we went to Iraq but that doesn't change present realities. I heard unconfirmed reports last night that Israeli soldiers had killed Iranian soldiers in Lebanon. While there is no doubt that Iran is behind Hezbollah's activities there, proof that Iran was directly involved in the conflict would be overwhelming evidence of Iran's direct threat to one of our closest allies. Then, I think we will see the withdraw from Iraq that everyone seems to want as we redeploy to Israel to fight a broader war that may draw all Muslim states into the conflict and runs the risk of going nuclear.

I guess my point is that geopolitics in the Middle East is immensely complex and the conflict there is something we all better get used to.