If this isn't a touchy subject I don't know what is.

[Maverik]

But put me in a womens college sports teams locker room while they are showering, I wonder how they would feel. I know well how I would feel!!!

And yet, if you went somewhere where they had co-ed locker rooms--I'd bet they have them in a lot of places in Europe, where they're much more relaxed about the human body--I bet you'd figure out how to get your shower, get dressed, and get out of there without offending anyone.

The problem is culture HERE in the U.S. is very different. How they act and feel over there does not apply here. They also stand too close for my comfort when talking to each other among many other differences. Completely different cultures, mentality's, and norms. Once again try Apples to Apples comparisons no offence.

[LaxRef]

But put me in a womens college sports teams locker room while they are showering, I wonder how they would feel. I know well how I would feel!!!

And yet, if you went somewhere where they had co-ed locker rooms--I'd bet they have them in a lot of places in Europe, where they're much more relaxed about the human body--I bet you'd figure out how to get your shower, get dressed, and get out of there without offending anyone.

The problem is culture HERE in the U.S. is very different. How they act and feel over there does not apply here. They also stand too close for my comfort when talking to each other among many other differences. Completely different cultures, mentality's, and norms. Once again try Apples to Apples comparisons no offence.

My point is that there is not an inherent problem with having gays in the locker room, but a problem with attitude. At one time, people were uncomfortable with racial minorities using "white" bathrooms, water fountains, etc., but we got over that. There's absolutely no reason we, as a society, can't get over this bias as well.

[Maverik]

My point is that there is not an inherent problem with having gays in the locker room, but a problem with attitude. At one time, people were uncomfortable with racial minorities using "white" bathrooms, water fountains, etc., but we got over that. There's absolutely no reason we, as a society, can't get over this bias as well.

Skin Color is a little bit different than Sexual Orientation, wouldn't you agree? I don't think anyone is talking about water fountains and bus rides here. That Era was on such another level of ignorance.

[OAKS]

Locker rooms are one thing.

Coaching and playing on the field is a whole other.

From the outsports.com article:

"When I'm pointing out something on the field during a game, and I put my hand on a player's shoulder, will he be hearing what I say, or will he be thinking about my hand touching him?" That's the kind of issue that is roiling in Hawkins' head: Will his ability to reach and coach his team be compromised by their subconscious fears of his sexuality?

As a heterosexual male coaching a college women's team, I had never really given the thought of what the girls' thoughts were about my intentions if I gave them a hug or whatnot (I apologize for not making that sentence clearer). I had never given the sexual 'tension' between players and coaches much thought as I would not have gotten into a relationship with a girl if I was her coach. This is a definite concern, as I feel its unprofessional and harmful to the team. It's much more common to have a male coaching a women's team than the other way around or a homosexual coach, but some things such as inappropriate relationships are definitely a concern and need to be discussed.

The key difference between hetero members of the opposite sex coaching teams and gay coaches is that people's lack of knowledge or narrow views might make players more fearful or suspicous of a homosexual coach and much more critical of them. If anything were to happen between a coach and a player, you would see a much harsher reaction from the general public, players and families than that which occurs when relationships occur between hetero coaches and players nowadays, with tons of people saying 'I told you so'.

I'm not saying it's an issue currently, but it's a valid concern. I would hope that players would give coaches, especially those with a good history, the benefit of the doubt that the coaches are conducting themselves professionally and are there to compete and help the players improve at the sport and become better people, and that the coaches are not for other reasons.

[OAKS]

My point is that there is not an inherent problem with having gays in the locker room, but a problem with attitude. At one time, people were uncomfortable with racial minorities using "white" bathrooms, water fountains, etc., but we got over that. There's absolutely no reason we, as a society, can't get over this bias as well.

Skin Color is a little bit different than Sexual Orientation, wouldn't you agree?

A lot of the arguments against both (including things such as interracial marriages) are the same. People are killed because of their Sexual Orientation. Gay people say sexual orientation is not a choice, and skin color is definitely not a choice. The fact that the discrimination is less violent (there are alot more dire consequences when discriminating, especially violently nowadays) doesn't mean it's not something that needs to be addressed or is less important.

[Maverik]

My point is that there is not an inherent problem with having gays in the locker room, but a problem with attitude. At one time, people were uncomfortable with racial minorities using "white" bathrooms, water fountains, etc., but we got over that. There's absolutely no reason we, as a society, can't get over this bias as well.

Skin Color is a little bit different than Sexual Orientation, wouldn't you agree?

A lot of the arguments against both (including things such as interracial marriages) are the same. People are killed because of their Sexual Orientation. Gay people say sexual orientation is not a choice, and skin color is definitely not a choice. The fact that the discrimination is less violent (there are alot more dire consequences when discriminating, especially violently nowadays) doesn't mean it's not something that needs to be addressed or is less important.

Thanks for editing out the last part of my post thus mis quouting me.

I don't think anyone is talking about water fountains and bus rides here. That Era was on such another level of ignorance.

In no way am I talking about being around someone, sharing a busride, a water fountain, or even a bathroom (they are at least sectioned off). The black/white racism was/is the most ignorant and pathetic thing I have ever learned about, next to the holocaust.

Please don't mis-understand I have homosexual friends and have no problem what so ever with them. This isn't about whether I think its right or wrong, because I don't care. Whats good for you is good for you. Just simply discussing the topic of a locker room where people are changing and thus changes the rules, for me anyway.

How many girls locker rooms allow the Male Coach in while they are changing? But here comes the double standard. They wouldn't care if it was a Female Homosexual coach in a girls locker room, at least not as much. But with males our society changes up the rules. And yes, no offence to Kyle, I would be wierded out in the locker room. On the field, off the field, etc... NO PROBLEMS at all. Coaching is coaching, playing is playing, but the locker room is different. That is where I stand.

[sohotrightnow]

Um, there are co-ed showers in some of the dorms at Berkeley. Nobody made a big deal about it. Then again, you really didn't want to see half the girls at Berkeley naked.

[OAKS]

Thanks for editing out the last part of my post thus mis quouting me.

You edited your post after I pressed the quote button. No harm no foul.

[KnoxVegas]

Skin Color is a little bit different than Sexual Orientation, wouldn't you agree? I don't think anyone is talking about water fountains and bus rides here. That Era was on such another level of ignorance.

Really? I cannot seem to remember Constitutional amendments being passed to outlaw interracial marriage? Ignorance is ignorance and bigotry stems from fear.

Agreed that the fact that the MDIA is being written about on MSNBC.com is what we really are missing here.

[pstirling]

As a former player at Mizzou, the locker room thing was never an issue. The very few times we actually had a locker to change in, I don't remember Kyle ever being in the there. I guess it could be different with the current players now knowing that he is gay, but if everyone can be mature about it, it shouldn't be a problem. In my playing days, Kyle never acted inappropriately in any way associated with this issue.

Pete Stirling '00-'03

[sohotrightnow]

I am really shocked and dismayed at some of the posts I have read. It's almost as if people on this board expect most homosexual males to act inappropriately in a locker room setting, as if that were SOP. News alert people! Not every gay man is attracted to you, and as soon as you get that in your head, you will realize the ignorance you have been harboring for years.

[StrykerFSU]

Right on sohotrightnow! A basic human sexuality class might be needed here. And I have news for everyone, you have already showered and changed in front of homosexuals.

[Beta]

News alert people! Not every gay man is attracted to you, and as soon as you get that in your head, you will realize the ignorance you have been harboring for years.

I agree with that statement completely. I believe there should be a sense of "decency" or "class" associated with a sex that you are driven towards. I may not be attracted to a certain group of unattractive girls but that doesn't mean it's ok for me to shower with them. That wouldn't be a gentleman-ly thing for me to do. Thus I would choose not to. If there was someone that was attracted to me and that wasn't my thing...why would I care?

[BB]

My point is that there is not an inherent problem with having gays in the locker room, but a problem with attitude."

why then differentiate between men's and womens locker/wash/bathrooms?

Taking yours, and sohotrightnow's and many others points to the extreme. We shouldn't have gender biased bathrooms, and I should be able to shower with women in public places if I want to because a couple Europeans do it and we need an attitude change (not manyactually do they may walk around topless a small bit more, but they don't shower together naked all the time.

While I agree this is a bit much, and don't even really care personally. I know that some people would and I can see this as an issue that has a relevant point. It is an issue about privacy and not about homosexuality.

I know not every gay man will think I am hot. Just the same if I walked into a bunch of naked women showering and slapping each other with towels and whatever else they do when I am not around (Kidding please). I wouldn't think all of them were hot, but I bet I would see a couple that were bombshells.

This also isn't an issue I raised, it was actually very traumatic for a gay kid I knew in college, when he was in Highscool to have to shower and fight down erections etc. He hated it as much as the people that were around probably would have had they known.

This isn't bigotry, this is an issue with a point, and I think some people become to PC when they call everyone that doesn't agree with them a bigot. I am not standing out to argue against being gay, nobody has a choice in that. I am discussing the privacy issues that it brings up.

Again I don't think it has an easy solution. But to dismiss this argument because of bigotry then you are misssing the point entirely.

[BB]

Also ,
I want to make it clear that I think Kyle coming out/and very publicly is an incredibly brave and positive thing. It shouldn't affect his coaching on the field at all and to that I hope it doesn't.