If this isn't a touchy subject I don't know what is.

[Maverik]

I would like to preceed the link i'm posting with a few message board rules.

1. KEEP IT CIVIL; DO NOT "FLAME"; ATTACKS ON MDIA TEAMS/CONFERENCES/PLAYERS NOT ALLOWED; NO CURSE WORDS ALLOWED
6. EXERCISE GOOD JUDGMENT
10. CONTENT
Abusive or obscene language will result in removal of the message. If the message is flagrantly abusive, contains obscene language, or is otherwise blatantly unacceptable, it will be removed and the poster may be prohibited from further posts.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13693745/

[Gregg Pathiakis]

I'm surprised it took this long for this article to be posted on this board. I assume many people read it but due to the fact that so many people know who Kyle is, they felt uncomfortable starting the thread.

I'm glad this topic is starting to get headlines and I'm glad Kyle is the one who is in the forefront of the story. Kyle has exhibited extraordinary courage over the past several years from his brush with cancer to his shunning by his family. Me and Kyle have talked about the subject many times during the past few years and has helped me feel comfortable in my own skin. I might not be a current athlete or a coach, but I am a gay man who has been heavily involved in sports over the past twenty years and I couldn't think of a better "poster child" for the cause than Kyle.

Male athletics has always seemed to be a breeding ground for homophobia. Stereotypes of athletes and stereotypes of gay men are polar opposites. Gay men are supposed to care more about interior design and wine tasting and athletes are ultra-macho men who eat, drink, and sleep thinking about their sport. Obviously both stereotypes are just that, stereotypes.

Obviously I don't have any data to back this up and I am just basing it on my own assumptions based on my own observations with other gay men (closeted) who are college or professional athletes, but I think most people would be surprised at the number of homo or bisexual athletes out there. As a whole, homosexuality is much more accepted these days and that has allowed people to explore their own sexuality without fear of what they may find and more and more people are accepting the fact that they are gay. Some of these people are athletes. Some of these people are coaches.

I am rambling a bit, so I want to close this with a strong voice of support for Kyle. I hope that you all can get behind him as well and remind everyone why the brotherhood of the lacrosse world is so strong. Don't be like his family and disown him for being true to himself. Stand behind him and pray for the day when a coach at a major university coming out of the closet is not such a big deal that it needs a major headline.

To end, I want to point out some other articles regarding Kyle's story...

http://outsports.com/lax/060711hawkins.htm

http://www.outsports.com/cgi-bin/ultima ... 00216;p=14

http://www.columbiatribune.com/2006/Jun ... por006.asp

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story ... 2257c.html

[Gregg Pathiakis]

I would like to preceed the link i'm posting with a few message board rules.

1. KEEP IT CIVIL; DO NOT "FLAME"; ATTACKS ON MDIA TEAMS/CONFERENCES/PLAYERS NOT ALLOWED; NO CURSE WORDS ALLOWED
6. EXERCISE GOOD JUDGMENT
10. CONTENT
Abusive or obscene language will result in removal of the message. If the message is flagrantly abusive, contains obscene language, or is otherwise blatantly unacceptable, it will be removed and the poster may be prohibited from further posts.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13693745/

This preface was edited in after I submitted my post. I would hope this rules would be unnecessary in this case. If you feel the need to attack anyone, especially Kyle, in this thread, please find another website to visit. You're unwelcome here, IMHO.

[OAKS]

Frankly I find it a sad state of affairs that this is such big news, as we consider ourselves such a forward-thinking and freedom loving society.

I guess if discussing it breaks down prejudices, it's a good thing though. It would be interesting to compare articles like these with those during the beginning of racial integration of sports.

[LaxRef]

Frankly I find it a sad state of affairs that this is such big news, as we consider ourselves such a forward-thinking and freedom loving society.

Well, as we all know, many people are for freedoms for themselves and not for others. For example, many people want freedom of speech for themselves, but not for people who disagree with them.

Personally, I think that anyone should be allowed to do anything with anyone else as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult and their actions don't directly affect anyone else. I don't care who's gay, or straight, or celibate, or whatever, because it's none of my business, and that goes as much for players, coaches, and officials as it does for my neighbor and my mail carrier.

My wife and I had a conversation about 12 years ago. I was commenting about how completely alien the institutionalized racism of 60 years ago seems today, and asked what sort of things we'll think about in the same way 50 or 60 years from now, and her response was the backward treatment of gays and lesbians.

I know one thing guys have problems with is that gay men might be in their locker room and see them naked. But if there's a big problem with the fact that someone might think about you sexually without your permission, you need to think about some of the things you likely think when you see a "hot chick." Why is one okay but not the other?

Oh, and to the arguments that homosexuality is "not natural," all I can say is that that belief is not supported by scientific fact, since there are many document instances of gay animals in the wild and in captivity. I'm pretty sure a penguin isn't making a "lifestyle choice."

Finally, I, like others, hope this can be a respectful discussion.

[DanGenck]

I am so proud of Kyle for his decision to come out in such a tough industry. God knows how many people Kyle will be comforting who struggle with the same decision by simplying showing the courage he has shown already.

Cheers, Kyle.

[KnoxVegas]

While I applaud Kyle for his courage, I wish I didn't have to. It is a shame that our society is so repressed that men feel threatened by homosexuality. Need I go any further than this post from earlier today:

http://forums.uslia.com/viewtopic.php?t=5474&highlight=


Being gay is not a choice. Good onya, Kyle!

[Maverik]

I know one thing guys have problems with is that gay men might be in their locker room and see them naked. But if there's a big problem with the fact that someone might think about you sexually without your permission, you need to think about some of the things you likely think when you see a "hot chick." Why is one okay but not the other?

While i am not exhonorating my self of the "what I think about a hot chick" comment, I will say that there is a difference between a naked man and a clothed woman. What someones mind does with the images input is thier own business, but what images are put in are other peoples. Just pointing out a flaw in logic. Apples to apples for comparisons.

[LaxRef]

I know one thing guys have problems with is that gay men might be in their locker room and see them naked. But if there's a big problem with the fact that someone might think about you sexually without your permission, you need to think about some of the things you likely think when you see a "hot chick." Why is one okay but not the other?

While i am not exhonorating my self of the "what I think about a hot chick" comment, I will say that there is a difference between a naked man and a clothed woman. What someones mind does with the images input is thier own business, but what images are put in are other peoples. Just pointing out a flaw in logic. Apples to apples for comparisons.

I agree the analogy isn't perfect. But if the person doesn't let you know what they're thinking about, it doesn't cause any problems, and I think in that way the analogy is apt. For example, if the gay man in the locker room thinks something sexual about you—and I don't believe that's common, in the same way that you likely wouldn't have sexual thoughts about every naked woman you saw—but you never know about it, I can't see that there's any harm done. This is in the same way that your own thoughts about a "hot chick" don't cause any trouble unless she (or your significant other ) find out about them.

[PigPen]

Am I the only one that (regardless of the issue) thinks that this is amazing that an MDIA coach is being written about by the likes of MSNBC and the NY Times? Wow. I mean the article (if you didn't know anything about the lacrosse world) speaks in such a tone that one uninformed individual might think that Missouri is a varsity program. I like that tone.

[Gregg Pathiakis]

Am I the only one that (regardless of the issue) thinks that this is amazing that an MDIA coach is being written about by the likes of MSNBC and the NY Times? Wow. I mean the article (if you didn't know anything about the lacrosse world) speaks in such a tone that one uninformed individual might think that Missouri is a varsity program. I like that tone.

I agree. If you read the thread from OutSports, you will see that when it was revealed who Frustrated_Coach was, someone asked why they couldn't find info on the team on Mizzou's site and Kyle explained why. Someone else made a really uniformed comment later on about it "just being club."

[BB]

I also applaud Kyle for being brave, but I do see some issues people may have with it.

As for the locker room comment I don't whole heartedly agree. I know there aren't a lot of locker rooms in the MDIA, where everyone is walking around naked.

But put me in a womens college sports teams locker room while they are showering, I wonder how they would feel. I know well how I would feel!!!

Thats where the difference would be. While I know that Kyle would never have these intentions it is still something I don't know if anyone can say they wouldn't be aroused unintentionally.

I have a couple gay friends that have discussed the issue of highschool showering and struggling to stare straight down in order they wouldn't be aroused.

By the way I have no idea what the answer is on all of this or even if there is one.

[Tim Whitehead]

While I applaud Kyle for his courage, I wish I didn't have to. It is a shame that our society is so repressed that men feel threatened by homosexuality. Need I go any further than this post from earlier today:

http://forums.uslia.com/viewtopic.php?t=5474&highlight=


Being gay is not a choice. Good onya, Kyle!

Ditto. It's a shame that this has to be an issue at all. I'm glad Kyle has come out, and hopefully it will help lead to a time when it isn't an issue at all.

[Maverik]

I also applaud Kyle for being brave, but I do see some issues people may have with it.

As for the locker room comment I don't whole heartedly agree. I know there aren't a lot of locker rooms in the MDIA, where everyone is walking around naked.

But put me in a womens college sports teams locker room while they are showering, I wonder how they would feel. I know well how I would feel!!!

Thats where the difference would be. While I know that Kyle would never have these intentions it is still something I don't know if anyone can say they wouldn't be aroused unintentionally.

I have a couple gay friends that have discussed the issue of highschool showering and struggling to stare straight down in order they wouldn't be aroused.

By the way I have no idea what the answer is on all of this or even if there is one.

I was trying to figure out how to phrase this same post. Thanks for doing it for me

[LaxRef]

But put me in a womens college sports teams locker room while they are showering, I wonder how they would feel. I know well how I would feel!!!

And yet, if you went somewhere where they had co-ed locker rooms--I'd bet they have them in a lot of places in Europe, where they're much more relaxed about the human body--I bet you'd figure out how to get your shower, get dressed, and get out of there without offending anyone.