Bad News for Duke

[Sonny]

Let it go lax_stats. Stand down away from the ledge, back away from the keyboard. Take a deep breath or three.

This is America. The US of A. Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.

Free will means people can do whatever they want with their money. Including donating to three accused lacrosse players facing large legal bills who might have exhibited some poor judgement a few months. Stop trying to dictate to everyone on this board which charity is better then another. OK?

[Lax_Stats]

Ummm If you actually read my posting carefully sonny, you will see that I clearly said when I wrote the following "you are more than welcome to offer them any support you wish as that is certainly your right to do so"!!

I am not trying to dictate to anyone, as you accuse me of, as to which charity is better than another. I was simply trying to make a point by pointing out 3 very worthy organizations that a persons money would better be spent supporting.

If a person wants to give their money away to support these players defense fund, that is totally their right to do so. I for one however choose NOT to pay the price for their lack of good judgement, innocent or not! That is my right as well, correct?

Wow! I feel so much better now that I have stood down away from the ledge, backed away from the keyboard, & taken a deep breath or three. LMAO

[cjwilhelmi]

I am not trying to dictate to anyone, as you accuse me of, as to which charity is better than another. I was simply trying to make a point by pointing out 3 very worthy organizations that a persons money would better be spent supporting.

That sounds like you are telling me what to do with my money and who I should donate it to.

[Tim Whitehead]

Be careful, cjwilhelmi, or you might get admonished for ending your sentence with a preposition.

[cjwilhelmi]

Be careful, cjwilhelmi, or you might get admonished for ending your sentence with a preposition.

Sorry my GRE score will show that I suck at English. What can I say it was my Arkansas education.

[Gregg Pathiakis]

Had they not made the bad decision to be involved in a party where strippers were as well as what other activities were going on, they wouldn't be in this predicament in the first place!!! They are now paying a very heavy price for using extremely poor judgement and learning a lesson I guarantee they wont soon forget. I hope and pray that these guys are indeed innocent and will either have the charges dropped or will be exonerated in their trials. However, if they are guilty, and I haven't seen anything at this point to make me believe that they are, then I hope they are appropriately punished for their actions!!! Either way, you are more than welcome to offer them any support you wish as that is certainly your right to do so. They got themselves into this mess, and now they have to get themselves out of this mess with the love and support of their family & friends. I hope that perhaps this message helps to clear up any misunderstandings regarding my feelings and position on the issue of buying the wristbands to support these men. They ARE men and as such I expect they can better handle the situation they are in than a small child who is dying of cancer can!!!

I don't understand your feelings on this case at all. Or maybe I do, which is even scarier. How does the fact that a bunch of young men hiring a stripper for a party, something husbands-to-be do all the time, turn into getting "themselves into this mess." If they are innocent like you believe, is there anything wrong with what they did? If they are truly innocent, which the majority of people on this board believe, how can we blame them for the situation they are in. It is a twist on blaming the victim. Using your logic, if this woman was really raped, should we blame her for "making the poor decision" and using "extremely poor judgement" in chosing to make money stripping? I just don't get it. If they are innocent, they did nothing wrong. End of story.

Also, to point out a contradiction in your statements, you say it is not a worthy cause to buy these bracelets, but you say they only way they are going to get through this ordeal is through the love and support of their friends and family. Where do you think this money is going to? It's going to the friends and family to pay for these lawyers and their bail. The support that their friends and family can give is obviously inadequate to help the players through this ordeal. Or are you saying that that's their own problem? If the friends and family can't support them, then they should just go into court with a court-appointed lawyer and not pay bail?

As for which causes are more worthy, it is a matter of opinion. Your opinion is that those charities that you meantioned are more worthy. To people who have been through, or know people who have been through, similar situations, they might believe this is more worthy. To be completely honest, I consider it a worthy cause even if they are guilty. I just tried typing the reasoning behind this four different times but I can't make my thoughts clear enough. I'll just leave it at the fact that getting a fair trial with this media attention is a lot tougher than a normal trial and that makes things even more expensive.

[StrykerFSU]

In my opinion, helping with the defense fund is not a charitable donation. I look at it as helping out a friend in need. I've never met these guys but they are the same as I am. We come from the same background, play the same game, went to good schools...we would have been boys.

I read the recent SI article last night and it was heart wrenching to read what these palyers and their families have gone through. It made me angry that their families were threatened, they were harrassed by their classmates, and were cast aside by their school. I'd like to help out in anyway I can and donating $30 and wearing a wristband makes that possible.

I encourage everyone to think long and hard before they say things like, "Those guys got themselves into this". We all do stupid things and get ourselves in bad situations. Aren't there things that we all wish we could undo? I'm sure these boys wish they could undo that party but that doesn't justify being accused of the most heinous of crimes.

I hear it preached all that time that lacrosse players are different than other athletes, a fraternity, a family. I've read it in the national media, in toasts at weddings, among players over a couple of beers. This is an opportunity to put your money where your mouth is and help out three young men who are no different from you.

[Sonny]

Can this story get any more bizarre?

Police report: Duke accuser nervous, changed story

RALEIGH, N.C. -- A woman who accused three Duke University lacrosse players of rape initially told police she was attacked by five men at a team party and at one point denied she had been raped, according to a police report released Friday by a defense attorney.

Authorities said previously in affidavits that the accuser reported she was raped by three men at a March 13 lacrosse team party where she and another woman were hired to perform as exotic dancers.

Three lacrosse players have been charged with rape, kidnapping and sexual offense in the case. Attorneys for all three players have strongly proclaimed their clients' innocence.

Victims rights advocates say it's not uncommon for an assault victim to have trouble answering questions in the hours immediately after an attack, when they are often emotional and unable to focus on describing what has happened.

A Duke police office described the accuser in the lacrosse case as "crying uncontrollably and visibly shaken" when speaking with her at a hospital hours after the party.

The one-page report, dated March 14, was included in 536 pages of additional evidence prosecutor Mike Nifong handed over to defense attorneys Thursday. It was released by Joseph Cheshire, who represents defendant David Evans.

LINK:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2498064

[cjwilhelmi]

Accuser in Duke rape case initially said 5 men attacked her

Short article but three selected parts:

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — A woman who accused three Duke University lacrosse players of rape initially told police she was attacked by five men at a team party and changed her story several times, according to a police report released Friday.

In the report released Friday, Durham Police Officer G.D. Sutton wrote that the woman said she was one of four dancers at the party and that she was attacked by five men.

Evans, 23, of Bethesda, Md.; Collin Finnerty, 19, of Garden City, N.Y.; and Reade Seligmann, 20, of Essex Fells, N.J. are each free on $400,000 bond. A judge reduced Seligmann's bond to $100,000 during a hearing Thursday.

Attorneys for all three players have strongly proclaimed their clients' innocence. A trial isn't expected to begin before spring 2007.

[Beta]

I can't even imagine how over my life would be if I was at a party and then I got accused of that. $400 large? Even $100 large would basically ruin my life for the next few years. Not to mention trying to get a job afterwards.

[LaxRef]

I am not trying to dictate to anyone, as you accuse me of, as to which charity is better than another. I was simply trying to make a point by pointing out 3 very worthy organizations that a persons money would better be spent supporting.

Well, "better in your opinion" is the point people are making. Anyway, you make it sound like you have some expectation for people behaving rationally. Keep in mind where people will say things like, "There's no way I would fly on an airplane; there are too many terrorists!" while they talk eat their tenth slice of double sausage pizza, finish smoking their third pack of the day, swill their twelfth beer while driving 90 with no seatbelt and while talking on their cell phone!

There are some people who feel that justice is not being served here and want to donate money to help. Me, I think that's crazy, but I understand the perspective. The scary thing is that, to some extent, I think things like this are often fueled by an attitude of "That girl probably deserved whatever happened to her, therefore those boys shouldn't be persecuted (or prosecuted)."

There is a disturbing amount of blaming the victim that goes on in this planet, especially with regard to sex crimes. Rape is a horrible, ugly crime; it is not about sex, it is about people trying to feel powerful by brutalizing another human being. And although I understand that sometimes the victims exercise poor judgment and put themselves in situations where they are more likely to get raped, that in no way justifies or excuses the behavior. It's sort as if someone went to a bad part of town and got shot, and people said, well, you can't really blame the guy who shot him, because he wouldn't have gotten shot if he hadn't gone there.

[bbandlax]

Finally, the Saintly Chevy Car salesman swoops down from the clouds to offer his opinion on the matter.

Spoken like a true ACC/Anit-Duke fan. Were you wearing your Kenny Anderson throw-back jersey while you wrote that post?

It seems that every fan in the ACC hates Duke and constantly mock Coach K.

If it is possible, I think the folks in Charlottesville hate Duke more than VA Tech.

[Sonny]

Finally, the Saintly Chevy Car salesman swoops down from the clouds to offer his opinion on the matter.

Spoken like a true ACC/Anit-Duke fan. Were you wearing your Kenny Anderson throw-back jersey while you wrote that post?

It seems that every fan in the ACC hates Duke and constantly mock Coach K.

If it is possible, I think the folks in Charlottesville hate Duke more than VA Tech.

Nah..... It would be a Dennis Scott throwback jersey, if anything.

All you have to do is lip read on the sidelines during any Duke basketball game and you will see how two-faced Coach K is.

[LaxRef]

Nah..... It would be a Dennis Scott throwback jersey, if anything.

Nothing like a guy who has a picture of himself tatooed to his shoulder.

[cjwilhelmi]

Nah..... It would be a Dennis Scott throwback jersey, if anything.

Nothing like a guy who has a picture of himself tatooed to his shoulder.

You've seen Sonny's tattoo too?