GLLL

[Pinball]

Univ of No.Dakota is working with Jon Carlson (in his capacity as "B" player rep) to present an application for B division membership.

Most of you probably don't even know that Jon Carlson is my real name. I have been working with them and they have actually had some scrimages at NDSU and had around 30 people. Pretty legit...

[Wisclax]

First Id like to establish my credibility for this post. I am a 3 year captain and president or vice president of the wisconsin A team. I just graduated and am leaving unfortunately but with regards to our team and what you all have to say...


1. Yes we do have a vote every other year or so on whether or not to join USLIA and it has come back NO so far.

2. Hal does not run or boss our team around. If anything its the opposite.

3. Do not bash Hal. He has done more for the sport of lacrosse then anyone on this board. He started lacrosse in wisconsin 35 years again as a player coach and has built up a league of both highschool and college programs. While he did not do it all or alone he was a major component of a lot of it.

4. We only have 2 guys playing for us on the A team that we would as they are grad students.

5. Madison Rocks and we hate to leave this town for a weekend to go to some bum town with few hott girls and lame bar scene.

I truely believe that our team will join eventually. While Ive been here (the last 4 years) we've gone from a team of about 25 to over 50 players. We now have gloves and helmets available for purchase with wisconsin colors so our team is building up matching equipment.

[TexOle]

I personally like Hal, and I appreciate what you have to say. I think there are some issues that must be discussed before Wisconsin should join the UMLL. These issues are not small, and I agree it will take some years before Wisconsin will join. I have talked with alumni and current players that have some legitimate concerns. Some of the bigger issues are cost, travel, and time. Wisconsin is getting close to many of the UMLL schools in a lot of areas. I think if they would compare themselves to some of the other schools in the UMLL they would see they are not very different from the other schools. The quality of lacrosse at some schools in the GLLC is lacking. Things a player should never say to a ref, "I am sorry; we are all a bunch of hacks." Yes, some player actually said that to me. This is not the case at Wisconsin, but some of the other teams it is a little scary.

[horn17]

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3. Do not bash Hal. He has done more for the sport of lacrosse then anyone on this board. He started lacrosse in wisconsin 35 years again as a player coach and has built up a league of both highschool and college programs. While he did not do it all or alone he was a major component of a lot of it.

I dont necessarily agree with you here, but I agree that the people that don't know Hal do tend to blame him for this issue...Hal is competitive, he leaves it up to who matters most, his team....However, I do think you could have used a bit more tact than "madison is so great, why go to a bumhole town.....yada, yada, yada".... maybe so, but if that is the case, why doesnt everyone go to madison, because apparently every hot girl goes there......

[Adam G]

3. Do not bash Hal. He has done more for the sport of lacrosse then anyone on this board. He started lacrosse in wisconsin 35 years again as a player coach and has built up a league of both highschool and college programs. While he did not do it all or alone he was a major component of a lot of it.

I know of a few people on this board from MN who have done as much if not more for the sport of lacrosse than Hal has, so I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

5. Madison Rocks and we hate to leave this town for a weekend to go to some bum town with few hott girls and lame bar scene.

Thats a good enough reason not to join the USLIA and stay in the GLLL.

[DanGenck]

If the "lame bar scene" is your primary concern with regards to competitive lacrosse then maybe you guys could transfer to Duke?

[DawgLax25]

Wisconsin is a state that needs to have the sport promoted inorder for growth. Looking at the UW squad over the years, I think the league they are in and the reasons they stay in that league (not wanting to travel to a bum town with few hot chicks and being a "big fish in a small pond") are counterproductive to the growth in the state.

The only way to grow and to improve is to play better competition. Yes the GLLC is a great starter league for the UW schools that don't have an established program. But no improvement and growth for the state will happen if these teams do not join the USLIA. UWEC and UWSP are the only representatives in this National oganization from WI. This leads me to the question, is the GLLC affliated nationally? I would hope they are governed by US Lacrosse.

This leads me to Hal. Being a member of UWSP for the past 4 years, I have dealt with him many times. As far as his promotion of the game in the state, it seems that he is only out for his own benefit. I know people on this board from MN that have done more for WI teams. For example, when the UMLL split into A and B divisions, UWSP was a rather young team but we were growing. As a team, we had the option of joining the B league that year. However, we opted for the A division. This was due Rob Graff encouraging us to step up and play better teams. I don't think if he planted that seed in our heads, SP would not have grown to become what they were over the years. We grew and learned to play better because we were playing better teams, both inside and outside of the UMLL.

Also, I think the UMLL and the USLIA have done a great job with communication. Other teams in the UMLL have grown and improved tremedously because of this. Look at all the big out of conference wins this year. The UMLL is being promoted on a national level. Does the GLLC offer this to their schools? The UMLL also has good communication with there former players. How many ex-players are now coaching or reffing in WI? I only know of a handful from Point. I'm sure Eau Claire has some too. However, if Hal is in charge of WI lacrosse, where is the communication with ex-players living in bum town, WI that have played in the UMLL?

I'll end with this question. . . .Looking at the state of WI as a whole, is UW-Madison promoting the growth of the game by staying in and dominating the GLLC?

[DwinsChamps]

I think that monetary issues are, at present, a much larger concern to the badger squad than promoting the game in-state.

And why not play in the GLLL? They still got to play Illinois, Ill State, Purdue, Michigan State, Bowling Green and Western Mich among others while keeping both cost and commitment down for players who can afford neither.

Not to mention, there are definitely some behind-the-scenes politics that discourage Hal from joining the UMLL.

[Adam G]

I love Madison, too. I was a student there before I transfered and can attest that it is a fun city. But not wanting to leave your own city for a bum town with few "hott" girls for a weekend is simply arrogant. Have fun in the GLLL, and I'll watch the All-American's roll out.

[metallax1]

i'm not really sure if you can count them playing all those teams as a plus, becuase, unless i'm remembering correctly, it was during an annual fall ball tournament which they could have regardless...

[Wisclax]

Ok. That comment about the girls and lame bar scene was a little over the top...I apologize. I was really trying to say that madison is a really sweet town and its hard for us to leave.

-Our players take lacrosse a little differently then USLIA. We play the game because we love the game; We enjoy playing our own team in practice as much as playing other teams. We routinely, unlike many USLIA teams we ave played, have had other teams over for drinks after our games. (ask northwestern or iowa state players) It doesn't matter that much to us. We have quite a few players who could have played DI or DIII lacrosse (including myself) but chose not to. We have players who did play DI or DIII and quit for various reasons. If we wanted to play competitive lacrosse that is the level we look to. If we had our way all of USLIA would be played much like GLLL...who cares if all helmets match or if a player is a 5th year senior. I understand there does have to be restrictions of some sort but IMHO I think the USLIA is too much virtual varsity. Now I know Im going to get responses about how USLIA does whats best for the sport by being strict and raising the competition bar and this is true as this is probably the only way for more D1 or DIII teams to sprout up. All I am saying is that the GLLL is on a different level, a level we are comfortable at. If D1/DIII is level 1, USLIA is level 2, GLLL would be level 3, and mens teams level 4.
I repeat myself again saying that one day I think wisconsin will be USLIA but it will have to take a group of guys that all want to join and commit.

I think someone brought up a good point about behind the scenes politics going on that has hindered us also. Some team or teams (im not saying details right now because im 100% positive on them) have raised objections on why we cant or shouldn't join. They know who they are and im almost positive they will read this post. This is no excuse on why we aren't joining but rather a sidenote.

As far has bashing Hal goes, please stop he has done nothing negative for the sport, maybe not as much as you guys would like but definitely not bad things. Hal organized the first lacrosse game and clinics played on
Italian soil this past january. And yes he has helped the sport in wisconsin as he has created the GLLL and he was a main part in creating madison's highschool league (AKA players who will filter into the state schools) . Many of you seem to bash the GLLL but if anything i think it gives other wisconsin teams a stepping stone to joining USLIA. Do you believe many of the small wisconsin schools would be where they are at right now without GLLL? It gives them time and resources to build a team from scratch before having to commit to something like USLIA. No ones stopping them from quitting GLLL and joining USLIA.

Last

How many ex-players are now coaching or reffing in WI? I only know of a handful from Point. I'm sure Eau Claire has some too. However, if Hal is in charge of WI lacrosse, where is the communication with ex-players living in bum town, WI that have played in the UMLL?

I never said Hal is in charge of wisconsin lacrosse ever. And yes Hal does continue to promote lacrosse to his ex-players. I personally know 2 players as head coaches of highschool teams fro our squad. I know of 5 players who have refed in the last 2 years including myself.

[KnoxVegas]

Our players take lacrosse a little differently then USLIA. We play the game because we love the game;

I will speak for my team and state that they play for the same reason. You imply that USLIA teams do not play for love of the game. The reality of the world we live is that our programs, either GLLL or USLIA, are self-funded. Some get s money from their school, but that is a drop in the bucket. Some get nothing. If it makes sense for GLLL teams to play themselves "for the love of the game" then that is fine. GLLL teams will continue to exist on another plane from USLIA teams.

All schools have money issues. Not every USLIA team makes trips to California or Texas. Most exist in their conference and try to arrange the necessary OCC games with team that are close in proximity. I would say that if UW-Madison has enough resources to carry two teams, then you would have enough resources to field a team in an USLIA conference, whether it be the UMLL, CCLA or GRLC. Wisconsin did play several teams outside of the GLLL but these games took place in fall at tournaments (HotDish and Big 10 according to the UW-Madison Lax website).

Augustana is in the process of establishing relationships with the GLLL teams. UW-Platteville is slated to come down this fall. I personally have contacted several GLLL teams about setting up games and UW-P is the only one I have heard from. Rock Island is relatively close to the Wisconsin teams and we would love to play Loyola, Northwestern and DePaul in home-at-home games, since the majority of my players call Chicago home.

[metallax1]

speaking of having a good time with teams after the games, just ask the michigan tech guys about coming to point. you'll get a big ol grin and a "when are we playing??".

every team and player on the team in the USLIA plays for the love of the game, and i'm pretty sure all the varsity guys, and pros are doing it for the same reason. why else would you work a full time job all week, fly across the country to get beat up by someone with a metal stick, and fly back in time to start working again? yup, must be the money!