Playoff Picture and Predictions

[Gregg Pathiakis]

I agree with Dan. If I remember correctly, we put a big emphasis on having 6 teams in Division B for the sole purpose of getting an AQ. Doesn't speak well of the PCLL when the division winner chooses not to attend the national championship.

I agree. Finals and finances... a problem I imagine 90% of the teams going to Blaine have to deal with. I remember hearing one person from Salem State say, "Don't worry, we will find a way." Obviously not.

[SSCLAX]

The PCLL had to give up their AQ because Salem State is able to attend due to finances and finals.

That is pathetic.

Those guys took a spot away from another PCLL B team that would have loved to go. Don't compete if you can't finish the job. I would hope that they would be severely punished for this.

If I'm not mistaken, we worked awfully hard to get to the spot we got to. We beat everyone we needed to and won the playoffs. Clearly, the way things worked out, we were the best team in that league, and everyone there was stoked to go to Texas after we won. Finding out we couldn't go was hard on all of us. No one else in the entire Pioneer League expected us to do as well as we did, not even ourselves. Just because we cant come up with the money to go to texas, doesnt mean we should be punished and just because another team can come up with the money to go, doesnt mean they deserve to go. And quite frankly, to call us or our organization pathetic is rediculous because what we accomplished this year is anything but pathetic.

[Daniel Morris]

The PCLL had to give up their AQ because Salem State is able to attend due to finances and finals.

That is pathetic.

Those guys took a spot away from another PCLL B team that would have loved to go. Don't compete if you can't finish the job. I would hope that they would be severely punished for this.

Dan, that is too harsh an assessment. Salem was working to go. They were getting things together. But like their palyers have said, this isn't what they wanted and you of all people know you can argue with the administration your team plays for, but they have final say.

Next season, the PCLL will need to talk to all the administrations and find out exactly what their stance is on their teams travelling if they win. How will they help finance, if at all, will they allow make up exams, etc.

Everyone needs to stop beating up on Salem. This could have happened to any of our Div B programs. All are cash strapped and all are at the mercy of the schools they play for. Sure, no one wanted this. But it is something we will learn our lessons from and be better for it in the coming seasons.

[Kyle Berggren]

This could have happened to any .... Div B program.... All are cash strapped and all are at the mercy of the schools they play for. Sure, no one wanted this. But it is something we will learn our lessons from and be better for it in the coming seasons.

I think that is key. This scenario is far from only happening at SSU.

[Dan Warren]

agreed, maybe a little harsh, but the bottom line is that for the PCLL to make strides, stuff like that cannot continue to happen. When I say pathetic, I mean the situation is pathetic. I have applauded Salem State in previous posts in other threads, for what they have accomplished this season, and was looking forward to tracking their progress in the National tourney. However, I do believe that SSC should have given thier school a heads up, before the season started, that this was a possibility...at the very least before the tournament started. I am assuming that they did not. It just stinks that the bid will not even go out from the PCLL, and that it was given out to Harding. I think that this could have been avoided..but life goes on, and a lesson was learned.

[cgalax]

I agree with Dan, but checking before the season or at least prior to the playoffs is something everyone should do. I think that if a team can't go to nationals they should still be let in the PCLL playoffs because that is a different entity. They should know before hand that they wont be able to go on though.
It doesn't make the PCLL playoffs meaningless because that is still something to win, but it allows the team to know in advance. We checked with the administartion prior to entering the playoffs and they said that if we won we wouldn't be able to attend because of issues with the kids summer training. We still want to compete in the PCLL, but we can't go farther. That is fine I think, but there should be a mandatory check by every school and confirmed to the league prior to the start of the playoffs if they can go. Something that should be added to the By-Laws in the future.
The reason I think that a specific By-Law like that should be added is because, the dates of exams and money may be different every year and there may be a year when an administration like at CG would be able to let the team go and years when they can't. The "CG" rule should be changed to something like:
Prior to the commencing of the PCLL tournament every team must submit in writing from their school administrator that if they win the PCLL they will be able to attend the National tournament. Then it becomes and issue of funding and that is something that you have to go with were there is a will there is a way. You can do fund raisers after to pay things back, but you can figure out a way to get there if you really want to.
I think Salem did a great job for their first year in the league as well as Rochester and Maine for the distance they had to travel. They all have the benefit of school backing and support which is great. I think that if we can get another team in either of the other two directions it will make for a fun trip in the future.

[Dan Warren]

cgalax

well said. I completely agree.

[Sonny]

I agree with Dan, but checking before the season or at least prior to the playoffs is something everyone should do. I think that if a team can't go to nationals they should still be let in the PCLL playoffs because that is a different entity. They should know before hand that they wont be able to go on though.

Actually, it's not a different entity and that's where your logic is a bit flawed. By participating in the PCLL, you are bound to honor the MDIA's obligations and responsibilities.

If a team knows before the PCLL tournament that they cannot or will not attend the national championship tournament -- then they should not be allowed to compete in the PCLL playoffs. It isn't fair to the rest of the PCLL teams and it isn't fair to the rest of the MDIA when the team bails on a spot at the national tournament at the last second.

[Gregg Pathiakis]

I agree with Dan, but checking before the season or at least prior to the playoffs is something everyone should do. I think that if a team can't go to nationals they should still be let in the PCLL playoffs because that is a different entity. They should know before hand that they wont be able to go on though.

Actually, it's not a different entity and that's where your logic is a bit flawed. By participating in the PCLL, you are bound to honor the MDIA's obligations and responsibilities.

If a team knows before the PCLL tournament that they cannot or will not attend the national championship tournament -- then they should not be allowed to compete in the PCLL playoffs. It isn't fair to the rest of the PCLL teams and it isn't fair to the rest of the MDIA when the team bails on a spot at the national tournament at the last second.

I agree with this as well. And, cgalax, you say that it doesn't make the PCLL playoffs meaningless for the team that can't go to nationals because they still have something to play for. They really don't, though. If they notify the conference before the playoffs that they won't be able to attend nationals if they win, then they have no chance, according to the by-laws, the win the PCLL playoffs. If they win the championship game, the loser of that game is still declared PCLL champion.

[Sonny]

If they win the championship game, the loser of that game is still declared PCLL champion.

Pls explain how that is logical or fair to all parties involved. The PCLL bylaws are screwed up, if that's true.

Teams need to excuse themselves from their conference playoffs, if they can't or won't complete their national MDIA obligations.

If they publicly declare that they are willing and able to go to nationals if they win the conference championship, only then should be allowed to compete in the playoffs.

If they abandon that commitment after the conference playoffs, there should be serious and swift penalties enacted because they are letting down not only their conference, but the entire MDIA.

[Dan Warren]

good points as well.

A line needs to be drawn then.

[cgalax]

I was talking more of playing for the team/personal goal. I realize that they can't be declared official champion, but they can still play the game. By playing in the tournament they are not bound to the MDIA, because the league champ is whoever the league declares. They could decide our AQ goes to the regular season champ if they want I believe, not positive. I think that at our level we need to remember that there are outside circumstances and the kids are playing for a love of the game and some healthy competition and the coaches do it for the same. We want to field the best team possible and be committed, but no one is on a scholarship. Allowing a team who has predetermined they can not continue I think is the right thing because they play for the right reason. If the league officially has to declare someone else the champ fine, but the kids are still playing and that is what we are about promoting I think. That is why we have pulled together as a league in the past to try and keep teams afloat for the good of everyone.
If we were arguing that a team couldn't play in the tournament because they can't go to nationals then why can they even be in the league. If that was the case then for all the teams that couldn't attend and I am pretty sure the CG is not the only ones that wouldn't have been able to make it happen for a ton of different reasons individual to different schools why would we be in the league and pay league dues if we couldn't play in the tournament at the end. We could just go independent and save some money.

[Jolly Roger]

Pls explain how that is logical or fair to all parties involved.

Every conference is allowed to determine their champion in their own way. The PCLL could state that " the highest finishing team in the PCLL tournament, that has declared intent to participate in nationals, will be named champion." Then they'd just have to play out the complete bracket through the consolation games. It's conceivable that the 8th place team could be declared the tourney winner (a definite weakness in this scenario).

[Sonny]

I disagree cgalax.

Allowing a team that has predetermined that they won't go to nationals into the conference playoffs is disrespecting the other programs fighting for a legitimate conference championship on the field. You need to look at the bigger picture.

[Sonny]

Pls explain how that is logical or fair to all parties involved.

Every conference is allowed to determine their champion in their own way. The PCLL could state that " the highest finishing team in the PCLL tournament, that has declared intent to participate in nationals, will be named champion." Then they'd just have to play out the complete bracket through the consolation games. It's conceivable that the 8th place team could be declared the tourney winner (a definite weakness in this scenario).

I know full well that each conference can do that. I still disagree with it. Makes the conference tournaments a joke if the onfield results don't mean anything.