who's up for the Div. B at large bids?

[Johnnielax13]

Several SJU guys are really taking offense to some of my assertions, and I don't want you guys to think I'm anti-UMLL or SJU or ST. No one wants to take anything away from you guys, both St. John's & St. Thomas are among the elite in the B, have consistently been in that group, and absolutely have earned a trip to Plano. SJU came out and played the top 2 teams in the country to start their season, and we are all aware of the weather problems that can occur outside of the West Coast. I've actually made several comments in the past about what an advantage players have in learning the game out here, as they can play all year round.

Maybe I'm the only guy with this view, but when I make a poll, I try to make sure it reflects all the past information. New polls reflect movement since then, and there have been 6 polls since SJU beat USD. I'm sure all teams have improved, but in watching our top B teams play the top A teams, only USD has come out on the winning side against UCSD (their schedule & ranking stands on its own). Claremont has also only lost to USD in the B's. Their first game was very close, the second not so much, and Claremont's schedule was brutal as well. If your defense for SJU to stay ranked above St. Thomas is, we beat USD 3 months ago, all I can say is St. Thomas beat you last week. If UPS were to crush SD in February, and then lose to anyone else, we'd no longer be the #1 in my poll. I try to do the same with each spot. I had SJU two spots ahead of St. Thomas, and St. has to leapfrog them. I do try to give free passes to teams that have a few close wins if they get the W, and its inconsistent with their body of work.

I'd also ask that you do a search to find out about SD's available practice time before their games. I'd be willing to guess you'd be surprised with what they have available.

Sorry if I came off that way, and I do not think we should be ranked ahead of St. Thomas, I think the rankings reflect exaclty where the league is. My offense was to Ballaholic's comment that our win over USD shouldn't count as much. A Win is a Win. And I understand that a win later in the season will have a greater impact on the polls later in the season. But if we were the only team to defeat them, I just don't need to hear the excuse that we won because it was Feb.

I never tried to justify that USD didn't earn thier spot, or that UST doesn't deserve theirs. And I have no qualms with the poll or seeding. I think the pollsters have done an amazing job this year, and with all the trouble the A division has had with their polls, I think the B division has been almost as difficult to hash through.

Of course USD probably has the same problem's scheduling feld times as any other club sport. I never asserted that they didn't. I was just trying to emphasize that any growing pains USD was going through in Feb, were felt by every other team.

[Gregg Pathiakis]

I would just like to know if they knew last Friday they could not go or if they had not even thought about it until monday. If they knew before the confernce tournament they could not go to plano and withheld their information from the PCLL, that is just plain wrong, because the second place team could have been named champion. Either way I do not feel they should be eligible for either the confernce tournament or the national one in 2007 because either they withheld information on purpose or are just poor planners that could disrupt the whole system again. The last thing the MDIA needs right now is disruptions in such early phases national development.

I agree. Actually, one of the requirements of teams in the PCLL by-laws is that they attend the national tournament if given a bid. At the very least, they need to be put on disciplinary probation which automatically bars them from voting and from playoffs.

[Gregg Pathiakis]

Who is to say they didn't? The members of these teams are students first and athletes second. Plan all you want but the school reserves the ultimate decision since the club is a school sponsored entity.

The members of all the other 27 teams that made the tourney are also students first and athletes second. They all made the appropriate arrangements as I am sure they are dealing with the same issues that Salem is dealing with. I can only assume from their lack of participation that something was lacking in their planning that prevented them from going to the tourney unlike the other 27 schools (and now 28 with the addition of Harding) that are making it work.

Very good points Catlax

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

I would just like to know if they knew last Friday they could not go or if they had not even thought about it until monday. If they knew before the confernce tournament they could not go to plano and withheld their information from the PCLL, that is just plain wrong, because the second place team could have been named champion. Either way I do not feel they should be eligible for either the confernce tournament or the national one in 2007 because either they withheld information on purpose or are just poor planners that could disrupt the whole system again. The last thing the MDIA needs right now is disruptions in such early phases national development.

I agree. Actually, one of the requirements of teams in the PCLL by-laws is that they attend the national tournament if given a bid. At the very least, they need to be put on disciplinary probation which automatically bars them from voting and from playoffs.

It's all very frustrating. . .unless your cup is half full - then you can just be excited that a very good Harding team (that was begging for an opportunity to compete with the best of the B division) --they actually get their wish.

I've had a day to be irritated. I'm going to wake up tomorrow and forget about Salem State. . .and focus on the 12 teams making the trip to Plano.


Can we start focusing on the matchups now? This is going to be fun.

[Dan Warren]

I just got back to this thread after starting the SSC questions.

I don't think there is any need to drag it out any further. It has all been said.


So, how will Harding do against Montana? What are the Griz like?

[Daniel Morris]

Daniel Morris wrote:
Not so fast!!!

I have just been informed that Salem State will not be attending the National Tournament due to both financial reasons and that their institution does not want the team travelling during finals.

I am very upset about this, but our Division B is still in its infant stages. The open spot will go to the next team in the poll. I guess all that speculation and hand wringing was for nothing.

That is very lame...and a poor excuse. Stuff like that should be cleared with the school administrators BEFORE the season starts.

Will SSC face any disciplinary action due to this, and, more importantly, will the PCLL lose it's B division bid for 2007?

Yes on both counts. Salem St. will face some sort of action, most likely probation, removal from league votes, and potentially being unable to compete in playoffs.

The Div B will lose the AQ for 2007. This could be a positive thing. Our Div B is very young, three of the six teams are first year programs, three are second year. They need some time to get things together, administratively and on the field. Not having the pressure of the AQ will allow them to concentrate on this coming season without worrying what they will do if they actually win. In 2008, all will be better prepared.

[Daniel Morris]

I've got to disagree. Teams that have been going to the tournament have been dealing with this issue for years. Salem just didn't plan properly. Actions that could've been taken to properly plan for this contingency would've been to meet with the school sports club directors at the beginning of the year and advise them of the tourney schedule. Meetings with the various school administrators to clear the schedule, get alternate exam times, advise the professors, etc. has to be done way in advance. Same thing goes for raising the funds well ahead of time to plan for the chance that you might make it to the National Tourney. This siuation is solely attributable to Salem's lack of proper planning.

Salem had no idea that they would even be in this position. They were a first year team still learning about the MDIA. They weren't expected to have a great season and started pretty poorly. These things happen sometimes. And Salem did think they were going to attend. Up until Monday. They had begun to arrange the finances before the tournament weekend. Things looked good. Then things went south. I'm not sure what happened exactly. But you should all stop trying to lay blame, and pretending you have any concept of what is happening with a team across the country. None of you even knew who Salem State was until they won the Div B.

[Daniel Morris]

I would just like to know if they knew last Friday they could not go or if they had not even thought about it until monday. If they knew before the confernce tournament they could not go to plano and withheld their information from the PCLL, that is just plain wrong, because the second place team could have been named champion. Either way I do not feel they should be eligible for either the confernce tournament or the national one in 2007 because either they withheld information on purpose or are just poor planners that could disrupt the whole system again. The last thing the MDIA needs right now is disruptions in such early phases national development.

Again, see my last post. Everything looked good as of Sunday. I found out Monday night they couldn't attend.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

I just got back to this thread after starting the SSC questions.

I don't think there is any need to drag it out any further. It has all been said.


So, how will Harding do against Montana? What are the Griz like?

I think the Grizzlies face Southwestern. . .

And I like the Grizzlies chances to advance to the final four. They are more talented than last year's team that did really well in Blaine. Last year they relied too much on one player, Townsend Hall at attack. They have added depth at the midfield and two starting attackmen - both excellent players, and that has taken the pressure off of Hall and made them a very balanced club.

The B division really sets up this year to be very exciting and competitive. . .let the games begin. . .

[lil lady lax fan]

Harding faces St. John's in the first round. I don't see an upset in that matchup. St. John's is pretty fired up after losing to St. Thomas. You can bet they'll be bucking for a rematch, and that would be in the next round.

Montana, on the other hand, should come out ahead in their first game. Then they run into problems--namely a pack of cougars with a taste for grizzly bear! And you can bet the Claremont team will be hungry after their loss to the Toreros.

Actually this matchup should be a good one. Both teams have depth and strong starting lineups. Both have quite a few league honors including OPY for Claremont and OPY and DPY for Montana. I think Claremont will come out ahead though for two reasons:

1) Compare the stats for these two teams against PLU and Western Washington.

Claremont:
defeated PLU 17-5
defeated WWU 19-3

Montana:
defeated PLU twice 18-14 and 21-11
defeated WWU 13-6 (season) 16-9 (championship)

And yes, I realize that the PLU game was played in February with a few of their best players out. The cougs still had a very convincing win for that early in the season. I think the more telling stats are the WWU seasonal games. They were played around the same time (March 23 and Apr. 9) and both were away games for WWU.

2) They are also taking on Claremont after a loss to league rival, San Diego, and you can bet that doesn't sit well with the Cougs. They have the chance for another grudge match against their arch-nemesis in the next round. Need I say anything more??

[cjwilhelmi]

Harding faces St. John's in the first round. I don't see an upset in that matchup. St. John's is pretty fired up after losing to St. Thomas.

And you dont think that Harding isn't ready for some revenge? I guarantee that they will come out firing. SJU and HU will be the best game in the Div B first round.

[Kyle Berggren]

1) Compare the stats for these two teams against PLU and Western Washington.

Claremont:
defeated PLU 17-5
defeated WWU 19-3

Montana:
defeated PLU twice 18-14 and 21-11
defeated WWU 13-6 (season) 16-9 (championship)

I think the more telling stats are the WWU seasonal games. They were played around the same time (March 23 and Apr. 9) and both were away games for WWU.

I don't want to be the bad luck guy and assume that Montana wins in the 1st round, so I won't, I'll say the opposite. An under-rated SW team will show that we all underestimate the LSA, and they'll kick the Grizzlies butts... although I really do hope for the opposite.

Assuming that the Griz do win their first round matchup, and play Claremont, I wouldn't really compare scores. From what I've heard, Claremont looked "incredible, but beatable" in February, and I'm sure they've only improved. I'd guess this would be a good game, and would not use the WWU games as something to compare. I do know that Montana played WWU & MSU on the same day (winning both, allowing 4 total goals in the 1st halves of those games), and rested players in each game. Being at the PNCLL Championship, I'd say Montana did the same, and the game really wasn't in question. At very few points were their best players really pushing the cage, trying to get extra goals or points. In the PLU championship game, PLU scored 5 in the 4th.

Should be an interesting game if it happens, and absolutely a challenge. Wow there will be some good games in Plano!

[lil lady lax fan]

I vote the Eckerd-Augustana games as the hardest to predict. Both are relative unknowns. Still haven't figured out what to put in for my tournament bracket! UNC-Calvin is another one ripe for an upset. Poor souls have to play San Diego in the next round...

[Pinball]

Poor souls have to play San Diego in the next round...

no worries, they are beatable.

[lil lady lax fan]

you haven't played them lately.