A Division All Conference

[Jolly Roger]

I have yet to comment on any specific players or why people were chosen.

Not by name you haven't

Duluth goalies have been getting hosed for years

So evidentally you feel you got hosed?

I am sure that the UMD goalies played outstanding in the out of conference games this year. However, I don't think too many voters from the UMLL saw those games.

Very true. So how can you blame them for not recognizing these players? Would you rather they guess?

[Adam Gamradt]

I didn't mean anyone in particular, I meant it in a general sense. Though you were critical of the lack of recognition for Jake and Ryan, which is fine, if that's your opinion. I just don't think this is the appropriate place to discuss it.

The discussion of how the AC's are chosen is relevant and on topic. But the discussion of "player x" should have been first team, does not add value to the discussion. For example, I don't think anyone who hasn't seen ISU's goalie play can say he's not worthy of a 1st team AC.

I agree with Frank, the selections should be based on who the best player is, it's not a popularity contest. I put our ballot together by thinking about who I would pick, were I putting a team together from scratch.

Stats don't matter much to me, especially as AC's go. Of course I say that having only tallied one point in my whole career!

[Champ]

I just don't think this is the appropriate place to discuss it.

Where better than a public discussion forum?

I agree with Frank, the selections should be based on who the best player is, it's not a popularity contest. I put our ballot together by thinking about who I would pick, were I putting a team together from scratch.

Yep

[troche]

All,

As a board member I can attest to the fact that we strongly look for the
"best players" to receive 1st and 2nd team honors. Discussion is had on
moving people around based on trying to put the best all conference team
together as possible. I think that is shown with multiple underclassmen
appearing on the All Conference lists for both divisions. We stand by the list, and congratulate all that appear no matter the distinction.

There are roughly 375 players in the 2 divisions with 76 players
receiving honors. It is a select group and we are proud to have them
represent our league.

We currently have a "nomination system" in place that allows us to
create the current All Conference lists in this discussion, specifically 1st and 2nd team. We understand all is not perfect and are always looking to improve our league and systems. If you have an idea that could benefit the All Conference selection system, please send it to the board for discussion at the next league meeting.

Tim Roche
UMLL President
MBSLA Vice President

[Gopherlax29]

I personally feel that UMD's goalies were the best 2 in the league last year as well. I just ddon't get why they haven't gotten their recognition?

[Champ]

I personally feel that UMD's goalies were the best 2 in the league last year as well. I just ddon't get why they haven't gotten their recognition?

As Gooseguy has said, it just happens by having lopsided games. If you are on the losing team in a big loss (in terms of goals), you don't even think about the goalie. You only submit 3 people from that game you think should be up for nominations. Usually the goalie isn't one of them.

[Riss]

The UMD goalies lack of recognition is really going to affect their draft status. Especially if they decide to come out early and skip their junior and/or senior years. We're talking about millions of dollars here people.

I didnt get all-conference till I was a senior and now I'm sitting at home posting on a message board instead of playing in the MLL!

[horn17]

It is my personal opinion that the best players should be the ones recognized. There should be no sharing of the wealth or feel good votes. The best player/team is the best.

Of course the UMD Alumni are going to think that the ENTIRE team should be made up of UMD players. There was no complaining from the UMN side last year when they were the best team in the league and still did not dominate the list.

All I am saying is that this discussion comes up every year. Of course, there are going to be people left out that probably should be in and vice versa. I do not feel that the league is "sharing the wealth" but rather giving recognition to great players regardless of their respective team's record. Take a look at the Pro Bowl or even the All-Star rosters for baseball. Yes the rosters are filled with people from the better teams, but they also recognize players from teams that are struggling as well. The argument you guys are making would equate to the Pro Bowl roster being completely made up of the Steelers and Seahawks....doesn't make sense does it?

I know that I am comparing professional sports to the UMLL but just trying to make a point that the UMLL is not giving out "freebees." Each one of the players on the list obviously had a good season and should be congratulated instead of their place on the list being questioned.

[/quote]


32- Not attacking you, just using your statement as an example before I rant on (acutally just statement 1/2/4 apply to your post)....


1. Frank is not alumni, never has been....

2. Comparing pro sports to the equation does work, just not your analogy considering if you look at the starters for the teams (which would be compariable to 1st/2nd team selections) are your BEST players on your BEST teams...when was a Devil Ray a starter in the past 6 years, same for the Lions, etc.... Your best players in the confrence deserve the recognition for being the best players in the confrence thus 1/2nd selections...

3. Out of confrence games should not matter for CONFRENCE HONORS...I know I might upset somepeople, but thats why there are ALL AMERICANS AWARDS in Texas.....

4. Focus on the issue now, not past examples, that is the current issue - bring up the past is like beating a dead horse....

5. Confrence awards are selected by a qualified commitee with non-biased views (as much as possible)..they do a great job, they understand that some players contribute more than just goals and saves...these players deserve the recognition for this, thus they recieve it this time....Granted, their are great players who dont make it, but realistically are you really going to through out your chest and brag about it??? Does it really matter????? Well I didnt make this, or I didnt make that....Im sorry , did some of us forgot this was a team game...and team success to me is more important, for me particularly...... I think Jake and Ryan are more than happy about heading to Texas instead, i dont think they would trade that for anything.....

6. Leave the board alone...they work hard for free (in case anyone forgot)

7. People have feelings, they get hurt, and I'm sorry...do you feel better? probaly not, so go out work on your game if your bitter and give yourself the best chance to make it to the first or second team list if that is your goal....I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR THE CARELESS...

8. The ISU goalie is good....maybe he had a great UMLL season outside of the UMD game (he was peppered, but did make some good saves) that must be considered for his nomination to the first team (I know they just dont give it out to someone who "deserves" it).

9. Why do we all have to bicker and fight right now....whats funny is all this is forgotten when summer league rolls around and half of us end up playing together....

10. No more lists... I need to work......

[Adam G]

The UMD goalies lack of recognition is really going to affect their draft status. Especially if they decide to come out early and skip their junior and/or senior years. We're talking about millions of dollars here people.

I didnt get all-conference till I was a senior and now I'm sitting at home posting on a message board instead of playing in the MLL!

Way to lighten it up a bit, Riss.

[umlax32]

Good points Horn! And Frank I wasn't trying to single you out, just wanted to stick up for the good players our there who get selected but then questioned just because they are on a team who did not have a good season. My comments were not directed at the quote I posted by Frank, my bad.

Thanks to the board for putting in your time and effort into the list. I think the players listed would make a great all conference team if a game had to be played.

Riss, I thought you got the call but were just holding out for more money??

[horn17]

He was going to, until he saw what the wear and tear of a pro career could have on his body....

Riss - remember - Jesse in Windsor....... Nuff said....

[Riss]

Actually i showed up to the combine "overweight" and they told me they had "character concerns". I told em just to give me the ball and that it would take care of itself.

[Gooseguy10]

Jolly Roger - Being that I have not seen the UMD goalies or even know them by name I have no idea if they got hosed. Also, I am not saying that the voters should guess about their picks. I was replying to the other UMD player who stated that both goalies played well in out of conference games. As far as my "UMD goalies getting hosed" notice the smile after the comment....its called sarcasm..... Since 1994 UMD goalies have been AC almost every year....so no they don't get hosed. Note my comment about the UMD goalies being young and therefore will have their day in the sun later in their careers. It's all in the reading, my friend.

[LaxRef]

A few points that people are missing in this discussion:

(1) There is no "best" player at any position, at least not in any objective sense, since "best" means different things to different people. In other words, different people place different values on different things. Thus, no amount of tinkering with the system, getting people to see more games, etc., will ever end the annual controversy.

(2) Even if there were some objective "best" player at a position, people would be voting on the selection. There's a famous theorem in economics called Arrow's Impossibilty Theorem ( http://tinyurl.com/hyaa4 ) that states that if there are at least 3 choices, no voting system can accurately reflect group preference in all situations. Thus, no matter what voting system you use, there will be situations where it fails.

In other words, the problem isn't with the nominating, or the voting system, or teams not getting nominations in on time. The problem is holding the belief that any such system could ever produce anything but controversy.

[DulaxTwo7]

well said