who's up for the Div. B at large bids?

[CyLaxKeeper00]

Not so fast!!!

I have just been informed that Salem State will not be attending the National Tournament due to both financial reasons and that their institution does not want the team travelling during finals.

I am very upset about this, but our Division B is still in its infant stages. The open spot will go to the next team in the poll. I guess all that speculation and hand wringing was for nothing.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

Dubbs, Kyle has a point. Dismiss early season games because there is no way a team from california has been on a field, and started playing together as well as a team from Minnesota.... In February...

BB,

Nobody is "dismissing" early games. . .

As a voter, I personally put slightly more weight on games towards the end of a season than early in a season, but certainly the win by St.John's over the #1 team in the country (their only B division loss in 2 years) is still a factor when doing my final season poll.

I think we can both agree that the St. John's team that took the field on Saturday is not the same team that beat USD in February. . .and vice versa. I imagine both teams are better. . .

But the fact that in the last month USD beat UCSD and Claremont convincingly makes them a no-brainer at #1. . .despite their early loss to St. John's. Had St.John's beat USD last week, it would have a larger affect on my poll than a win in February, when both teams are still trying to find chemistry, players might be in different positions, freshmen start stepping up, etc.

St. Thomas doesn't have a win over the #1 team for their resume, but I think they deserve their high seed and bye after their win over St. John's this past weekend (and the rest of their impressive season).

I look at the top 8 teams in the tournament field and it is almost exactly the order I had the teams ranked myself. I think the system worked out just fine. I would have had Claremont ranked above St. Thomas, but there's really not much difference there between #3 and #4. . .they both get byes for their outstanding seasons. . .

[Kyle Berggren]

Several SJU guys are really taking offense to some of my assertions, and I don't want you guys to think I'm anti-UMLL or SJU or ST. No one wants to take anything away from you guys, both St. John's & St. Thomas are among the elite in the B, have consistently been in that group, and absolutely have earned a trip to Plano. SJU came out and played the top 2 teams in the country to start their season, and we are all aware of the weather problems that can occur outside of the West Coast. I've actually made several comments in the past about what an advantage players have in learning the game out here, as they can play all year round.

Maybe I'm the only guy with this view, but when I make a poll, I try to make sure it reflects all the past information. New polls reflect movement since then, and there have been 6 polls since SJU beat USD. I'm sure all teams have improved, but in watching our top B teams play the top A teams, only USD has come out on the winning side against UCSD (their schedule & ranking stands on its own). Claremont has also only lost to USD in the B's. Their first game was very close, the second not so much, and Claremont's schedule was brutal as well. If your defense for SJU to stay ranked above St. Thomas is, we beat USD 3 months ago, all I can say is St. Thomas beat you last week. If UPS were to crush SD in February, and then lose to anyone else, we'd no longer be the #1 in my poll. I try to do the same with each spot. I had SJU two spots ahead of St. Thomas, and St. has to leapfrog them. I do try to give free passes to teams that have a few close wins if they get the W, and its inconsistent with their body of work.

I'd also ask that you do a search to find out about SD's available practice time before their games. I'd be willing to guess you'd be surprised with what they have available.

[Dan Warren]

Daniel Morris wrote:
Not so fast!!!

I have just been informed that Salem State will not be attending the National Tournament due to both financial reasons and that their institution does not want the team travelling during finals.

I am very upset about this, but our Division B is still in its infant stages. The open spot will go to the next team in the poll. I guess all that speculation and hand wringing was for nothing.

That is very lame...and a poor excuse. Stuff like that should be cleared with the school administrators BEFORE the season starts.

Will SSC face any disciplinary action due to this, and, more importantly, will the PCLL lose it's B division bid for 2007?

[Hi-Line Lax]

I think it's fair to point out that this is only the second B division National Championship and most teams only have a few OCC games to compare...there are many really good teams out there and I just hope we all play hard in Texas and represent our conferences well...the seedings are done, we can argue about this when the tournament is over.

[KnoxVegas]

Daniel Morris wrote:
Not so fast!!!

I have just been informed that Salem State will not be attending the National Tournament due to both financial reasons and that their institution does not want the team travelling during finals.

I am very upset about this, but our Division B is still in its infant stages. The open spot will go to the next team in the poll. I guess all that speculation and hand wringing was for nothing.

That is very lame...and a poor excuse. Stuff like that should be cleared with the school administrators BEFORE the season starts.

Will SSC face any disciplinary action due to this, and, more importantly, will the PCLL lose it's B division bid for 2007?

Yeah, I know. Why let an education get in the way of playing college club lacrosse anyhow?

Come on now. Schools reserve the right to fund a team and/or allow them out of classes to play sports. Varsity teams have tutors, clubs from what I have experience at the B Division level do not. We almost had a similar incident as SSU with at Augustana this year. Look, some schools plan for the national championship, other fall into it. SSU would be in the latter. Almost everyone had Rochester slated to win the PCLL and they didn't make it past the semis.

It is sad that the SSU student/athletes will not get the reward of competing for a national championship that they have earned through their hard work and commitment to the sport of lacrosse. But to fault a institution of higher learning for putting education over athletics is ridiculous.

[CATLAX MAN]

I've got to disagree. Teams that have been going to the tournament have been dealing with this issue for years. Salem just didn't plan properly. Actions that could've been taken to properly plan for this contingency would've been to meet with the school sports club directors at the beginning of the year and advise them of the tourney schedule. Meetings with the various school administrators to clear the schedule, get alternate exam times, advise the professors, etc. has to be done way in advance. Same thing goes for raising the funds well ahead of time to plan for the chance that you might make it to the National Tourney. This siuation is solely attributable to Salem's lack of proper planning.

[KnoxVegas]

Who is to say they didn't? The members of these teams are students first and athletes second. Plan all you want but the school reserves the ultimate decision since the club is a school sponsored entity.

This is not a situation where a club hockey team is playing in nationals and parents are asking administrators to allow their kids to miss school for a week.

[CATLAX MAN]

Who is to say they didn't? The members of these teams are students first and athletes second. Plan all you want but the school reserves the ultimate decision since the club is a school sponsored entity.

The members of all the other 27 teams that made the tourney are also students first and athletes second. They all made the appropriate arrangements as I am sure they are dealing with the same issues that Salem is dealing with. I can only assume from their lack of participation that something was lacking in their planning that prevented them from going to the tourney unlike the other 27 schools (and now 28 with the addition of Harding) that are making it work.

[Kyle Berggren]

I agree, more planning may have made a difference. Maybe they'd let Dan Morris administer a test if needed, but what's done is done. I feel terrible for their players, especially the seniors, but it they are students first. To me, its unfortuneate that the University allowed them compete in a league, with the goal to make the National Championship, but not allow the championship.

Have they known the administration would not allow them to go the entire season? or did they just not think it was a possibility?

[gibertjs]

I would just like to know if they knew last Friday they could not go or if they had not even thought about it until monday. If they knew before the confernce tournament they could not go to plano and withheld their information from the PCLL, that is just plain wrong, because the second place team could have been named champion. Either way I do not feel they should be eligible for either the confernce tournament or the national one in 2007 because either they withheld information on purpose or are just poor planners that could disrupt the whole system again. The last thing the MDIA needs right now is disruptions in such early phases national development.

[cjwilhelmi]

Either way I do not feel they should be eligible for either the confernce tournament or the national one in 2007 because either they withheld information on purpose or are just poor planners that could disrupt the whole system again. The last thing the MDIA needs right now is disruptions in such early phases national development.

That is the first smart thing you have said.

[gibertjs]

ummm .... ok

[Zeuslax]

I have to agree with Bluevelvet and gibertjs on this one. I find the "school won't let us go" argument to be a little weak. Salem had to be aware of their financial situation. This is embarrassing to the B division as we try to grow and gain legitimacy. A team that receives an AQ and drops out has larger implications. This is what many were afraid of. A team wins their prospective conference, and due to lack of organization and lack of funds in unable to attend nationals. Even though many others are capable and would love to receive the opportunity. Any team proposing to get into a league in the MDIA. Understands that attending playoffs and potentially nationals has finacial implications. If they don't understand then it's the leagues responsibility to inform them and ensure that a team is capable of fulfilling all its potential responsibilities. If they are unable to fulfill these responsibilities then maybe the MDIA isn't for them?

The 4 teams in the CCLA (2 are first year teams) had a dialog going, discussing the potential that any of the 4 has to plan for nationals. It was a possibility, thus a little proactive communication erases any potential issues. My whole team was made aware weeks in advance of this possibility. Many had conversations with professors, we had a budget set, the university was aware due to finals, etc........Seems fairly obvious to me.

Kyle Berggren Stated

what's done is done.

Unfortunately, I think this was bound to happen eventually. It's just a shame that it has to happen to Salem State.

[usdlax8]

Now i think we can all agree it is a shame that Salem couldn't make it but none of us truly understand their plight being whether or not they could have planned better, if they couldn't afford it, or their school wasn't allowing them to play and miss important classes.

Back to the talk about st. johns and st thomas. i think one thing that must be considered is the quality of win factor. ok i have no problem saying that we, usd, lost to st john's. what most people don't take into consideration is that we were ranked number one at that time based soley on mere speculation. at that point in time claremont had earned the number one spot by beating st johns after st. johns beat us. that was the first poll and in my opinion the only one to present a case for any team's ranking based on their performance. now, late in the season, things have developed and even though st johns beat us early in the season we hadn't really earned the number one spot; they beat us as the number one ranked team preseason. those teams are completely different than the ones now (i'm talking about usd as well as st. johns). so basically what i'm trying to say is that a teams recent performance must be the leading factor in considering each poll and it seemingly has been that way through the entire season. collectively i think that it is important to understand the development in the polls and judge each one step at a time.