Final Div. A Poll

[CATLAX MAN]

The AQ is not going away. No need to discuss that topic.

[x1dschm]

In simple terms: Utah has won three quality games this entire season by a total of 3 goals

Utah has lost 7 games, 3 of which were lost to teams ranked below them by a total of 9 goals (chapman, Chico and Duluth).

As we saw by the Michigan State win over Michigan, even a mediocre team can have a good day. does that mean they should go to the national championships? I don't think so. I also don't think teams should get AQs if they are not in the top 16. Just my opinion. It may challenge teams to start playing better competition.

Discuss...

Great debate and regardless of which team has to watch from home it will be a shame. Here's some fuel for the RMLC/WCLL rivalry.

Final Four head to head records from the rival conferences:
WCLL Final Four

AZ 1-1
UCSD didn't play any RMLC F/4 teams
C Poly 1-1
Sonoma 0-3
Total 2-5


RMLC
BYU 1-2
CU didn't play any WCLL F/4 teams
CSU 1-0
Utah 3-0
5-2

RE: Chico/Chapman losses, ... Feb 17/18 first days on grass. First games of the year for a team that lost two players the first week of January, (worth 66 goals in '05,) It has taken some time to develop the new goal scorers.

RE: Duluth loss - 1-goal OT, great match up, great game.

RE: "The Mediocre team comment" How many times does a team have to win tough head to head games without a loss before they get a little more respect?

RE: 10-goal loss to BYU....It's a head game thing. These UT kids grew up in awe of the Cougar laxers and still have a problem realizing they are just as good! We had the same problem with CSU until Friday and then the Rams had to come from behind in the 4th to survive the game.

Like I said...it's a shame they all can't go to the dance, but 3-0 vs the WCLL isn't mediocre!

[steveperry]

Sorry if you didn't read the last comment as I wanted it to be read. Utah is not mediocre, I do think that Michigan State has been this year. I am saying that sometimes those 1 goal wins from a lower ranked team against a much higher ranked one does not reflect more then a bad game. This is obviously not always the case. The point is that Big teams will lose one goal games to lesser teams every once in a while. It sure happened a lot this year to the best teams in the country. Utah has improved a great deal later in the season, but that does not mean that we don't count their early loses into the equation, certainly not a 7 goal loss to Chapman, not a close game.

Also, I dont think that comparing final four teams from the WCLL and RMLC paints a clear picture. RMLC has 5 A teams, WCLL has 18, 8 of which or ranked in the top 25. UCSB went 2-1 against RMLC teams, Chapman 1-0,

I wish that more teams could get a chance in the tournament after playing well during the season. AQ can prevent that sometimes. I do think that there are other teams in the top 20 that deserve to make the tournament just as much as Utah, but they will not go. I do think that Utah would have a better chance at winning a first round tournament game then Texas, Oakland, Northeastern, and Lindenwood to name a few.

Tough year for the polls, and good year to see some of the lesser teams from the past show that they are becoming much better teams. A huge one up to Utah for playing such a challenging schedule this year, something that any team that wants to become a top 16 team SHOULD DO.

[ME]

Joker,
Utah winning by 1 in 3 games all of which were against Top 10 teams that they were suppose to lose to seems pretty legit to me. As I read all of these forums and see your comments posted I have noticed that you tend to have anti-Utah remarks in most of them. Is this because your a BYU fan or do you just despise this team? In alot of your post you try to take away from everything Utah has done. I am not from Utah or real familiar with the Utah program but I have seen them play and I believe that they are a real Top 10 team. What bothers me the most other than you continue to try and bring them down in these post is the fact that you use earlier losses from the beginning of the season to do it but I don't see you in other postings talking about how other teams have lost to lesser ranked teams. For instance Cal Poly lost to Duluth as well but you seem to think the world of them and please don't try to justitfy it by saying they have beat higher ranked teams because Utah has as well in fact Utah beat Noma who beat Cal Poly by 5. This year has been an interesting year in the league every team has had its ups and downs and if your going to post on here to bring down teams and what they have accomplished then try not to focus on just one team...

[Bluevelvet]

I want to make clear that I want Utah to go to Plano. I wanted both Cal Poly and Utah to go. Had Michigan not lost they both would have gone. Now, only one will go.
Utah and Cal Poly are both deserving. The tounament would be more competitive if they both were there.
I also want to say that I do not feel animosity between the RMLC and the WCLL. I feel like there is mutual respect and on field rivalry. The RMLC is my favorite conference after the WCLL. But some of these mock polls seemed like very unrealistic wish lists. I wanted to be more realistic in my approach.
This year it really doesn't matter where a team is seeded. The second round game for #1 Colorado St. will almost certainly be against FSU, UCSB or maybe UCSD. That is no cakewalk for the #1 team.
This is a year when most of the top teams have been less mentally tough and less disciplined than in past years. Anyone in the top 10 can get hot and win 4 games. It should be exciting.

[ME]

It is too bad Michigan lost then all this bickering wouldn't be as bad but the only conclusion to this is that we all should just blame it on Michigan haha. But seriously, I agree the tournament should be a good one this year especially the second round.

[Hackalicious]

Utah beat Sonoma three games ago. I think this win puts them over the top. This win is even more important than the Cal Poly head to head (althought I agree with Debbie on that one).

The Utah win over Sonoma was accounted for in the last poll.

Since the last poll, Utah lost to BYU by 10 and to CSU by 4.

Poly has a 4-goal win over Davis and a 1-goal loss to Arizona.

I think that blowout against BYU killed Utah's hopes, which is a shame. Michigan losing to Michigan State really was a huge loss, since it essentially soaked up one at-large bid that will now go to Michigan.

(But who knows the minds of pollsters. Maybe they'll weigh Utah's Sonoma win more heavily now that Sonoma has gone on to win the WCLL.)

[CATLAX MAN]

Maybe they'll weigh Utah's Sonoma win more heavily now that Sonoma has gone on to win the WCLL.)

I just don't see that happening. They already got a bump in the last poll because of that. Both Cal Poly & Utah are deserving teams that should be at the tourney, but one of them probably will not be. They are very similar teams when you compare them. They both have big wins against highly rated teams and both played a difficult schedule. When you look at their results, they both had an identical 3-6 record against rated teams. To me, the only thing that sets them apart is Cal Poly's overall 11-6 record as opposed to Utah's 9-7 record. Since Cal Poly was rated ahead of Utah in the last poll and they have 1 win and 1 loss since them and Utah has 2 losses, I just don't see how Utah leap frogs them. Stranger things have happened.

[steveperry]

Joker,
Utah winning by 1 in 3 games all of which were against Top 10 teams that they were suppose to lose to seems pretty legit to me. As I read all of these forums and see your comments posted I have noticed that you tend to have anti-Utah remarks in most of them. Is this because your a BYU fan or do you just despise this team? In alot of your post you try to take away from everything Utah has done. I am not from Utah or real familiar with the Utah program but I have seen them play and I believe that they are a real Top 10 team. What bothers me the most other than you continue to try and bring them down in these post is the fact that you use earlier losses from the beginning of the season to do it but I don't see you in other postings talking about how other teams have lost to lesser ranked teams. .

Okay, I don't want to argue here, because I think that I have given pretty good breakdowns of every team in the top 25's ups and downs this season. Utah is discussed, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE POSTS WERE TALKING ABOUT. I didn't pull them from thin air to pick on them.

Simply put, if games early in the season don't matter, then maybe your first five games, wins or loses, shouldn't count in your record. Does that sound like a good idea? If Utah won those games, you would not be complaining about those games counting.

As I said, I admire Utah for playing such a hard schedule. They have won three meaningful games this year, and they have lost 7. They did beat Cal Poly, but Poly also beat U of Oregon and they beat Chapman, who as we know, killed Utah. We could go at this all day.

Crazy year, no question about that. Utah is a good team. Are they a top 10 team, I am not convinced. I will take that back if they find a way to beat a ranked team by 2 or more goals next year. If this Michigan thing and other AQs in weak leagues was not an issue, then they would be at the tournament, along with a couple other looked over teams. There is still a chance that pollsters will still put them in it this year.

[bullhighutewoozgriffclam]

I can see why some people don't like you Joker.

I'm biased in the Utah/Poly situation but I've been looking at it like I was in their shoes. Either way one of us got gyped and I'd love to play 'em for the spot instead of having all this propaganda and jibber-jabber. It's up to the lax gods now.

I'm angry with both Michigan teams as well but if I look at it from their shoes ya know it's a whole different matter. We're all human beings and I know some of my teamates don't might not see it like that.

Much respect to Poly and if they get chosen over my Utes they better do some damage in Texas.

[gobblerlax05]

they just plain lost it all ! they did not realize what was at stake!

[gobblerlax05]

if it comes down to sos it favors... ucsb!

[mikey]

I cant remember, is laxpower one of the voters? Just because I noticed a score was wrong which would affect ratings.

[CATLAX MAN]

No, they are not a voter.

[TrainerDan]

Ok...after looking at this weekend's results this is how I would rank 'em:

1. CSU
2. Michigan
3. BYU
4. CU
5. SSU
6. Arizona
7. UCSD
8. FSU
9. UCSB
10. Oregon
11. Cal Poly
12. Utah
13. Oakland
14. Lindenwood
15-the end...doesn't really matter!

Since the last poll CSU has clearly established their position as #1. Michigan dropped a close one to their arch-rival in the conference tourney but has shown they have what it takes all year. BYU handily beat Sonoma and Utah before a disappointing showing in the RMLC tourney but they are playing good lacrosse since early March. CU had a huge win over BYU in the RMLC tourney but close losses to CSU keep them where they are at. Sonoma lost twice in Utah and did not look good doing it but they came back strong in the WCLL tourney. Arizona is playing solid to finish the year. UCSD's win over UCSB and strong performance against SSU say a lot about them. FSU won their conference tourney but who have they beaten this year? UCSB has struggled but I sure wouldn't want to meet them in Plano. Oregon won their conference but have the same problem that FSU has...who have they beaten? Cal Poly has been tough all year and has played stronger at the end than Utah, that why I give them a slight edge over the Utes. Oakland and Lindenwood are there just for numbers sake...

It's a shame that either Utah or Cal Poly is likely to get left out because they would definitely be more competitive than some of the AQs.