A teams required to play B teams

[Dulax31]

1) Pollsters will consider every game you play, no matter if it’s against an A, B, JUCO, or NCAA school. Maybe they aren't suppose to, but I guarantee deep down they do.

2) Scheduling is also a conflict with requiring a B game. I think Lars can tell more about this?

[DanGenck]

Though I have little or no basis to say so, I don't think St. John's will be moving up to the A Division anytime soon. I have to think that with a desire to move to Division III, winning at the B Division level looks much better to the administration of the school and the to people who will potentially bankroll a Division III program.

[Dawglax20]

I believe that the A/B games should not be a requirement. I think Graff has brought up good arguments that support this. This is not to say that there will not be any A/B games in the UMLL. I am sure there are some rivalries that a few A/B teams have that they will want to continue, or just the fact that some teams will want a game that will be competitive and close. I know that UWSP will continue to play a UMLL B team because every B team we have played has been competitive and a great experience for us (SJU, UST, UWEC). But that is our decision as a club, and other A teams should be able to choose what they want to do regarding their schedule and not forced to play a B team.

[horn17]

Dan,

Not to burst your bubble or anything....

I dont think they care at all about USLIA Lacrosse if they are truly interested in making that jump...it will have little or no impact on whether or not they go D3....different caliber of athletes are required to compete at that level...Im not saying that the SJU team doesn't have talent (they do, and I consider them one of the top teams in all of the UMLL) but I know what type of caliber of players it takes to compete (not just field a team) at that level and that brings on all sorts of predicaments....

However...I also feel that we should be able to add to the mix of our league by moving teams up and down as needed....I know UST, and SJU would be competive in the A division, but maybe not just yet....if we had requirements needed to make that jump, it might be easier...

I know in HS, if you won the D2 or D3 state hs championship, you and the runner up would move up, where as the bottom 2 would drop down to that division to replace them....Im not saying we should examine it right now, but it might help in strengthening the league as a whole....

[LaxRef]

I know in HS, if you won the D2 or D3 state hs championship, you and the runner up would move up, where as the bottom 2 would drop down to that division to replace them....Im not saying we should examine it right now, but it might help in strengthening the league as a whole....

In what state? In what sport?

What you are describing is not the norm in most states or sports. In fact, last years Class AA women's ice hockey HS champs in Minnesota dropped down to Class A this year after losing some top players.

[Reilly]

Well Said Horn... Look at teams like CSU and Michigan struggling with Whittier (a middle of the pack D3 team), CW Post WAXING FSU and then make assumptions about being successful in the B league for yourself.
Pinball- "Running Scared" I dont think so. When we at UST play the UofM, They were not scared... I didn't see any of Duluth's guys playing very tight (Scared) when SJU played them in St Cloud. In fact in both cases the A teams came out and "punched the B teams right in the mouth."
I'm with the A teams. Should it be mandatory? No. Encouraged? Yes. There are some pretty good natural rivalries out there between A and B Teams. Carlton/Olaf, UST/UofM (used to be a big one back in the day I am told), St Cloud/SJU, Morehead/NDSU, UWEC/UWSP. Should these be played? Absolutely. Maybe just a scrimmage w/ referees? Who cares. They are for bragging rights, and if all the B teams can come up with is: "We want more games against good teams." Then they are out of luck, too bad. SJU went to Cali to play some great comp. But unlike the West Coast Heavy A League, there is plenty of good B teams in the Midwest. Look at the CCLA and GRLC (Calvin, Dayton, Western Ill, Creighton, SLU, Harding, Dordt).
It is also important to recognize that the USD/UCSD game is a cross town rivalry. USD probably had this game circled on their calendar all year. My question (I dont know the answer) is... Does the WCLL require A/B games or was that a mutually agreed upon game?

[Pinball]

just an example
mt.. union in Div 3 football-
2000-2003 55 game win streak
1996-1999 54 game win streak

14 consecutive confrence championships

Should they of gone up to d2 or d1??

[DanGenck]

just an example
mt.. union in Div 3 football-
2000-2003 55 game win streak
1996-1999 54 game win streak

14 consecutive confrence championships

Should they of gone up to d2 or d1??

For the love of God, you go to a good school!

"Should they HAVE gone up to D2 or D1"

[DanGenck]

Dan,

Not to burst your bubble or anything....

I dont think they care at all about USLIA Lacrosse if they are truly interested in making that jump...it will have little or no impact on whether or not they go D3....different caliber of athletes are required to compete at that level...Im not saying that the SJU team doesn't have talent (they do, and I consider them one of the top teams in all of the UMLL) but I know what type of caliber of players it takes to compete (not just field a team) at that level and that brings on all sorts of predicaments....

However...I also feel that we should be able to add to the mix of our league by moving teams up and down as needed....I know UST, and SJU would be competive in the A division, but maybe not just yet....if we had requirements needed to make that jump, it might be easier...

I know in HS, if you won the D2 or D3 state hs championship, you and the runner up would move up, where as the bottom 2 would drop down to that division to replace them....Im not saying we should examine it right now, but it might help in strengthening the league as a whole....

You are not bursting my bubble at all. I've been in the meetings with the decision makers and I know what they are looking for... what they want is-

#1- Established recruiting capability.
#2- Victories at the club level, regardless of B or A Division.

So... for St. John's, winning at the B Division level is simply a better idea than moving up to the A Division level, and not making the national tournament, not winning as many games, not being as competitive... and possibly not moving up to Division III in the future.

This is very similar to how Rob Graff told me it would play out years ago when I refused to listen. He seems to be pretty sharp about this kind of stuff...

[horn17]

Lax Ref-

The great state of Ohio...numerous HS teams, all across this state, personally we are only about a year out from having to do it at here as well...

I feel that the A's and B's should always play.....i like these rivalaries, and more importantly I like the development across the league...my point is that St. Johns and St. Thomas, would not only be competitive in the A division, but it would help bolster the entire league if they bounced up, thats all......

Pinball...football is a differnet beast...your talking about a school that recruits right out of their back yard in what is probaly one of the biggest football states in the land....(I know, I lived through it...boy was it a pain...my cousin went to Union), but by no means could they compete at the D1 level, (D2 very possibly)...,lacrosse is like basketball in this regard, you could move up and be competitive...but you need to continue to bring in better talent to get there...

[Rob Graff]

First:

Thanks for the kind words Dan.

Second:

The purpose of B is not to bolster A. The purpose of B is to provide an even playing field for like-minded schools. It is not a developmental league and was never intended as such. I regret if that is the impression some have, but I was in the discussions to create a national b divison and that was never our intent. It is the intent for the B division to be what Dan G and others have discussed . It is my hope that we will all remember that on a go forward basis.

Rob

[Moose]

I have to be honest, at the league meeting, I was absolutely against terminating the manadtory A/B rule. I have changed my view on this subject. After playing 5 OOC B games all in the midwest, there is some great competition to be played for those that want to find it. I felt that the only way to get better was to play better competition and the only way to do this was to play A teams. I agree that A teams have all to lose and nothing to gain, while B has all to gain and nothng to lose. It is my feeling and hope that many of the rivalries will still stand even if we split. We had a great game verse the U and had a great attendance. I truly believe that with the success of UST and SJU more competititve B teams will be willing to visit the great state of MN. so thats my 2 cents.

[horn17]

Moose...

It would be great to get ANY team to visit us up here....say middle of March...in the snow!!!!! Im all for it!!!!

[Moose]

I know of two teams planning on coming to MN, next season. I would like to get them late in the season in our stadium, or it would have to be in a Dome.